قعدوا في بيوتكم و فكونا

Few days ago, I had this message from “Kuwait News” on my mobile
“ The parliament passes a law to impose a fine on anyone who dresses or behaves in anyway that may indicate that he’s a gay, or she’s a lesbian”
And the strange thing is that the parliament voted unanimously in its favor, in one session!!!

WOW; didn’t know that such issue had such a national priority. I doubt if it was even properly discussed in the parliament. How about the validity of such bill when it contradicts with other clauses of the constitution? If there are any additions that should be made to the clauses of the constitution; it should guarantee more freedom and not less. What does ElSaqer, and Alrashid who consider themselves liberals think about this?
Somehow I feel that the majority voted with the bill to embarrass the prime minister :p

This bill was passed in haste, now they have to come up with the detailed amendment to describe “how one can dress or behave in a way not to be mistaken for the other gender?” Because this could really be a problem for most of us. I for one; do not have many dresses, or skirts; I usually wear my jeans or a baggy pants with tops. Oh and I wonder what would be the situation with wearing shorts? I love wearing them and go biking :p

Ok, now seriously; I think there should be laws governing our general appearance in the work place, like most local and international banks. And that it should not apply to gays alone. Although I do understand that gays are more liable to discrimination than others when it comes to public behavior.

I worked for the ministry of Public Works for years; one of my many positions there was heading the General Planning Department. And one of my duties was redistributing personnel according to their expertise. Some were considered “excess” in some departments, while were in “demand” as qualifications in others, and the biggest problem I was facing was gays. No one wanted them because other employees did not accept them, although some carried high qualifications that some departments desperately needed. Some others with qualifications ended up working trivial jobs in far away site locations, just to stay away from the main office and the problem they were facing with other employees; especially men.

The problem is that some gays insist on showing their sexual identity by wearing make up, exposing Henna hands, and tight colorful tops. One of the gays I was dealing with, brought his wife to meet me (a Saudi man) who was wearing a black, decolte dress. The whole floor gathered to see them go out of my office. And the number is nothing that one could take lightly; it was around 28 men back then in 2001. There were around 10 women who openly exposed their sexual tendencies with the way they wear their clothes or behave, or even say out loud, without being afraid that others might take discriminatory measures against them. But I guess the society isn’t really bothered with those, may be because this is rooted as an old Islamic belief in us, that women are naqisat 3agl (according to Islam preaching; women’s brains are not complete, whatever that means!!!) and that women are only following a trend that would pass eventually. Well, at least I know by being a Moslem woman I can get away with many things :p

To be honest with you; I really feel sorry for gays in general. Gays are not aliens, as religion wants us to believe. We have to accept them as a part of our society. If God created gays; who are we to defy his creation? Now I’m talking in the same language of the ones who are fighting gays’ rights in the society, and who do believe in God’s creation. And we should not discriminate others according to one’s gender or sexual preferences. But sexual preferences are very private and it should stay so. Working place is not the place to display such preferences. Especially that there are guys who consider themselves straight (whatever is the definition for that), but in reality; they are perverts. Gays may expose themselves to sexual harassment (and it happened although the guy concerned denied it, and nothing was done about it), which they do not need, and there are no laws that can protect them. I had an incident where some employees complained about gays using men’s bathrooms. They demanded that some bathrooms should be labeled for gays only!!!!

Anyway; what I’m trying to say is that a law is needed to control general appearance in the working place. For example; one should not wear evening dresses with glittering sequence to work, nor wear official suits when going for a disco. This should be elementary; but without such laws (broad lines), one can never keep a decent atmosphere. This should be applicable to all employees. It’s not a matter of being conservative; but rather is an effort for finding a workable atmosphere away from other distractions.
And talking about being conservative; it seems to me that the ones who call themselves liberals are even worse than some hard-liners. They did not even discuss whether this move is against the constitution or not. Time for you guys to go home and resign if you can’t take the responsibility. Or, better yet; change your party; there are much more incentives on the other side of the fence, and the Islamists will make sure that you will always get a big piece of the cake; they have the whole country in their pockets.

And on a similar note; incidentally, US military, the Department of Defense has discharged 37 linguists from the Defense Language Institute for being gay, click here. They also fired Arabic-English translators in Iraq, for no reason other than declaring that they are gays. Which clearly shows that being conservative has no nationality, but it is more connected with religion.

Look for the source of the problem; and it’s always religion.

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35 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. Sailor
    May 31, 2007 @ 10:04:26

    r u against the new law ! why would we want to see gays and lesbians all around us ! isnt that enough !

    Reply

  2. Anonymous Coward
    May 31, 2007 @ 11:17:09

    You are responsible for this law. Yes, you! the people at the parliament are YOUR representatives!

    Reply

  3. Purgatory72
    May 31, 2007 @ 12:34:49

    explain to me why are you being preoccupied with this issue while you are out somewhere else 😛

    Reply

  4. bosale7
    May 31, 2007 @ 17:09:17

    الغريب انه قناعة اعضائنا الحلوين انه كل شي ممكن ينحل باصدار قانون
    كاه عندج قانون تجريم التعاطي وحيازة المخدرات …هل قلل اعداد المدمنين او التجار ؟
    قانون منع التدخين في الاماكن العامة ..هل قلل اعداد المدخنين ؟
    قانون حزام الامان …هل قلل اعداد المتحزمين ؟
    قانون المخالفات المرورية …هل قلل حوادث السرعة ؟
    قانون المال العام …هل قلل اعداد المتنفعين والسراق ؟
    الاصل بالمعالجة هو معرفة السبب والافة ومن ثم الاستئصال …مو العقوبة المباشرة بدون تفكير

    الموضوع كله هو ابراء ذمة امام ناخبينهم

    الاغرب بالموضوع هو موافقة النواب الذي يقال عنهم انهم وطنيين او ليبراليين على القانون … شنو كانت وجهة نظرهم ؟؟

    Reply

  5. Peony
    May 31, 2007 @ 18:36:40

    what happened to freedom of expression ?
    will there be like “clothing police” around the country ? ridiculus..

    Reply

  6. AyyA
    May 31, 2007 @ 21:31:13

    Sailor
    If you can’t stand seeing gays around, that’s your problem bro. Gays have been around since the Greek and the Roman empires and no law could banish them from existence.

    AC
    Unfortunately; you are right.

    Purgy
    Old habits die hard

    Bosale7
    “الاصل بالمعالجة هو معرفة السبب والافة ومن ثم الاستئصال …مو العقوبة المباشرة بدون تف”
    True, and even this should not be an issue on the parliament’s agenda, but rather in the hands of the experts in this field, of the concerned government sectors.
    “الاغرب بالموضوع هو موافقة النواب الذي يقال عنهم انهم وطنيين او ليبراليين على القانون … شنو كانت وجهة نظرهم ؟؟”
    I really wish I knew, I’m so disappointed

    Peony
    Gone with the wind is the answer to your first question, and definitely yes to your second. And ah you can say “ridiculous” again.

    Reply

  7. GLBT Kuwait
    May 31, 2007 @ 23:57:27

    never saw a country supports discrimination!

    Reply

  8. Evil Knievel
    Jun 02, 2007 @ 16:49:06

    first … i am straight…
    second… gays and lesbians know how to party and are good people to be with…
    third… i expected nothing else from Kuwaits government…
    fourth… I want a list of things i better not wear from now on so I am sure i don’t get mistaken! 😛

    I am seriously concidering organising a ‘love parade’ like in Berlin here in Kuwait! Or what about a “chritopher street day”!!!
    Do they have enough prison cells in Kuwait for all gays, lesbians and their supporters!?

    Reply

  9. Evil Knievel
    Jun 02, 2007 @ 16:49:44

    christopher street day … sorry … 🙂

    Reply

  10. AyyA
    Jun 02, 2007 @ 20:31:21

    GLBT
    The problem with passing such bill without enough studies of its future implication on the society is a disaster. As it is; the law does not criminalize gayness alone, it even criminalizes public behavior and appearance. Now who will control that? Who decides what is considered “not gay”? And who will be responsible for crime prevention, or crime control in public when it comes to this field? Will the government establish a new department to take care of that? Something similar to Haia Elamr Bilmaroof (department of calling for good and banning evil (my translation)) of Saudi Arabia for example? Well; unfortunately; that’s how it appears.
    Meanwhile; It will remain to be just another element to increase corruption in the society by opening more channels that the society does not need. Just imagine how much our reliance on favors (wastas) will increase? And favors from who? The beardos. In other words; this damn parliament has just unanimously dug another nail on the country’s coffin.
    But what really pissed me off, is that the bill was supported by the MP that I personally respect the most; Alanjiri!!!! This person is never known for his hastiness in taking such grand decisions. Or did I not know better?
    Ps; if you can’t read the Arabic link above, I can briefly summarize the department’s responsibility by drawing a simile to the Spanish inquisitors
    of the medieval ages.

    Reply

  11. AyyA
    Jun 02, 2007 @ 21:26:02

    Evil Knievel
    I think Christopher Street Liberation Day in Kuwait would be a wonderful idea; especially that this coincides with June ;).
    And I seriously believe that gays should fight for their rights. And I also think that everyone should support them. Not because I approve of gayness, but simply because it’s none of my business who or what others prefer as their sex partner. I support them on the principle that they are regular citizens who are liable to their basic rights, and have to respect civil law and order.
    But the problem with this particular issue, especially in such a primitive society, is that it is not accepted socially. Not for religious purposes alone; but rather for the heritage and customs that taboo it. Kuwait is a small country, and almost everyone knows everyone else, or at least he knows the family from which one descends. And exposing a matter like this is a disgrace to all the family, not only to the person alone. And sometimes can also disgrace the tribe of which a bunch of families descend from. You may know that many prominent figures in Kuwait are gays, and most people know about them, but they never expose themselves.
    There are other teenagers though who are taking this path as a trend, or as an exploration into the realm of their sexuality. Don’t forget that gender segregation indirectly contributes and encourages such misguided exploration.
    So, I believe that if you arranged this event in Kuwait, you’d only end up in jail with a handful of teenagers that you don’t want to be with :p

    Reply

  12. Alia
    Jun 04, 2007 @ 11:07:15

    اللي يحر ان مشاري العنجري كان من ضمن اللجنة اللي اقرت القانون

    Reply

  13. white wings
    Jun 04, 2007 @ 13:44:53

    المشكلة ان القانون يجرم “التشبه” بالرجال والنساء وليس “الشذوذ الجنسي” وهنا مشكلة كبيرة في التعريف، يعني الشاذ ممكن “يطيحون” عليه متلبس، لكن المتشبه من يحكم أنه متشبه؟ على قولتج، أنا أحب ألبس بنطلونات، ولفترة كان شعري قصير، وعندي بنت عمة تعشق الكرافتات، يعني كلنا في سجن واحد؟
    🙂
    والاختيار الجنسي “الشذوذ” هو شيئ خاص جداً ويتم خلف أبواب مغلقة، يعني يدخل في باب الحرية طالما أصحاب الشأن لم يأتوا بفعل يخالف قوانين البلد
    سمعتي بعد عن قانون تجريم البلوتوث؟ يعني البلوتوث مجرم مطلوب للعدالة
    أقولها للمرة الألف، مجلس أمتنا مليان عبط
    بوسات من الكويت لك
    :*

    Reply

  14. q80demon
    Jun 04, 2007 @ 16:59:03

    Another excellent post AyyA. One observation: you mentioned in your response that homosexual forms of behavior date back the Greco-Roman empires. Actually, same gender sexual relationships are not unique to mankind; it is widely observed in the animal kingdom – here is a quick reading. Surely the practice must have been common among the earlier cultures and generations of humanity; and it is another behavioral pattern that belongs to our inheritance from our evolutionary predecessors.

    Reply

  15. Edrak
    Jun 05, 2007 @ 02:52:19

    First of all if you think its not that important then why did you write about it ? Doesnt that say alot about you and your views ? How about you change the title to ( ge3day eb baytech oo fekeena ? ) No counterpoint what so ever.
    They you said ( (according to Islam preaching; women’s brains are not complete, whatever that means!!!) On what grounds are you interpreting ? your own logic ? and if you dont know what it means dont act smart and try to convince us that you do. I dont consider any of you as a liberal and being liberal these days has many definitions to it. Dont be shy say im secular or atheist at least we will know on what basis your basing your ideas on. I know many liberals who believe morality is something important that identifies the core of our identity and stabilizes it. if you want to substitute that with ethical philosophy thats up to you but dont you try to judge people and then say that islamists always do that. how awkward ?
    when will you guys start to show these congregations some respect ? When will you start to really respect others religions and ideologies rather than holding to an exported ideology that you cant even think it up for yourself and adapt it to our culture ..

    I will consider a debate if you really can defend those views .. I will be ready and im sorry i really dont have much time to continue with this. how about ( the importance of morality in Kuwaiti society ? )

    Best regards and sorry if my words were too harsh but i guess that you respect others and can take the heat 🙂

    Reply

  16. Edrak
    Jun 05, 2007 @ 02:57:54

    one other thing

    you said ( The only way England has to save its skin is to teach those barbarians how to live within the secular society and respect its laws. And if they want to apply the shareea, let them go back to their caves and tents where they belong)

    I dont blame those islamic extremists when they see someone racist such as you. barbarians and caves .. how nice and how respectful of you .. now i know those extremists must face the same extremism you pose here .. both atheists and extremists from any religion should exist somewhere where we cant even sense them breathing .. very sick people indeed

    Reply

  17. soud13
    Jun 06, 2007 @ 01:49:54

    بعد فترة راح يفرضون على النساء لبس العبائه الأسلاميه والحجاب
    والرجال لازم يلبس دشداشه وحاط لحيه طويله للركبه 🙂

    هامش الحريه قاعد يصغر كل يوم

    Reply

  18. Me
    Jun 06, 2007 @ 14:27:05

    “If God created gays; who are we to defy his creation?”

    God also created murderers, rapists, etc.. Should we accept them as part of our society too?

    Reply

  19. AyyA
    Jun 06, 2007 @ 23:30:24

    Alia
    اي والله

    WW
    سمعت عنه بس ما فهمته!!
    How could they criminalize blue tooth?

    DA
    Thanks for the invaluable contribution. Animal kingdom can teach us a lot if it wasn’t for our cultural and religious prejudices.
    Interesting though; I didn’t know that animals have sex for pleasure and not just for reproduction 😉

    Edrak
    “First of all if you think its not that important then why did you write about it ? Doesnt that say alot about you and your views ? How about you change the title to ( ge3day eb baytech oo fekeena ? ) No counterpoint what so ever.”
    ما فهمت شي
    “They you said ( (according to Islam preaching; women’s brains are not complete, whatever that means!!!) On what grounds are you interpreting ? your own logic ?”
    No, I did not invent that, it’s in your ancient religious books. Go learn more about your religion.
    Now; however you want to interpret those texts differently is your business.
    “Dont be shy say im secular or atheist at least we will know on what basis your basing your ideas on.”
    I think my blog screams it out… SECULAR. And why should I be shy to admit that? You have a strange logic dude!!
    “I know many liberals who believe morality is something important that identifies the core of our identity and stabilizes it. if you want to substitute that with ethical philosophy thats up to you but dont you try to judge people and then say that islamists always do that. how awkward ?”
    ما فهمت شي
    “when will you guys start to show these congregations some respect ? When will you start to really respect others religions and ideologies rather than holding to an exported ideology that you cant even think it up for yourself and adapt it to our culture ..”
    WOW, you really confused me here. Who is “you guys” and what in the hell does this have anything to do with my subject?
    “I will consider a debate if you really can defend those views .. I will be ready and im sorry i really dont have much time to continue with this. how about ( the importance of morality in Kuwaiti society ? )”
    I did not get it? why should I go in a debate?
    “Best regards and sorry if my words were too harsh but i guess that you respect others and can take the heat :)”
    Believe me I do not get offended and definitely not sensitive to criticism if it was in its right place, but please stay within the boundaries of the subject and do not generalize my thoughts to include other liberals. And about the other subject you talked about, please refer to the comments on that post “Londonstan”; I believe that we covered that there. Thanks.

    Soud
    تهقى خوش وقت انحشت؟
    😛

    Me
    First: murderers and rapists are part of our society. Do you deny that?
    Second: civil laws should be applicable on all citizens, regardless of their sexual orientation.

    Reply

  20. Edrak
    Jun 08, 2007 @ 15:43:59

    i will leave out the part where you said you dont understand anything cuz it seems you dont wanna understand.
    about my ancient religion, it has been distorted and manipulated with because of those who interpret it as they please like you.
    . ناقصات عقل لأن العاطفة تطغي على العقل غالبا و هذا ليس حديث الساعة ان كنتي تعلمين و ناقصات دين بسبب الدورة الشهرية و أعتقد بأنك تعلمين و هنا النقص ليس نقص تسفيهي بل دلاي فعندما أقول بأنك ناقصة في الحياد هل هذا انتقاص لك ؟ كلا انه تدليل على النقص و ليس انتقاص و أرجو ان تأتين بلسان العرب لتنيري بصيرتك به و تتركين التأليف لغيرك ..
    You would go into a debate because you have the ability to defend your views and you want to show that your path is the right path and you are civilized enough to go into one .. offcourse until now i`ve never seen one secular person who is capable of a debate yet. ( They always think they are always better off with knowledge education, and social status) but nevermind this.

    last but not least try to answer rather than act funny or divert the main argument into the secondary points .. if you replied on all of them that would be ok but your not.

    im not the one with strange logic .. im straight to the point and blunt about what i say .. your the one who seems to answer things that were not even said. More0ver, admiting something shows that you have nothing to hide and shows us how determined you are to prove youself right or wrong .. if you can`t do that why establish a blog and talk about stuff that you dont wanna argue about ? If your not welcoming people who differ with you just inform me .. i just thought that you have the integrity to argue like an adult which i hope is still the case ..

    didnt understand ?

    Reply

  21. you-sif
    Jun 08, 2007 @ 18:46:46

    ayya
    التاريخ ملئ بالشواهد والقصص للمتشبهين منذ القدم
    ولكننا كمسلمين لنا مرجع هو الشرع .. والشرع حرم التشبه صراحة قبل صدور القوانين
    ومن ناحية غير دينية
    نحن شرقيين لا نزال نعيش بالفطرة الانسانية التي تدفعنا بعدم قبول التشبه من الجنسين .. ولا نقبل الانحطاط بإنسانيتنا من أجل هؤلاء الحفنة الغير سوية
    ومن المفروض علينا احترام القوانين التي تصدر في البلد
    بغض النظر عن أهوائنا الشخصية ..وعلى المتضرر الجوء الى
    القضاء .. أليس كذلك

    تبقين دوما .. آية المثيرة للجدل

    Reply

  22. AyyA
    Jun 08, 2007 @ 19:17:58

    Edrak
    What’s bugging you dude? And who said I want to argue or open a debate here? The issue you brought about “ناقصات عقل و دين” is not my main issue, yet it opens a path to different subject of interpretation as everything else in Quran and tradition.
    And about “my interpretation”; your religion was supposed to be sent from God in Arabic language. This means it is supposed to be clear for a layman or bedouins to understand, and not need translation, or interpretation (no difference). But when it starts becoming liable to different interpretations, then it does not become a word from God, but rather from the ones who claim His role by giving His words their own interpretations. So who’s interpretation is closer to what God originally wanted? Most probably none.
    Yet, the problem here is not the interpretation, because the main thing is that we both agree that Moslem God discriminates between males and females in this very point
    . واستَشْهدوا شهيدين من رِجالِكم فإن لم يكونا رَجُلَيْن فرَجُلٌ وامرأتان مِمَّن تَرضَوْن من الشُّهداء أنْ تَضِلَّ إحداهما فَتُذَكِّرَ إحداهما الأخرى… (البقرة: 282).
    روى الإمام مسلم رحمه الله في صحيحه في باب الإيمان عن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أنه قال: “يا مَعْشرَ النساء تَصَدَّقْنَ وأكْثِرْن الاستغفار، فإني رأيُتكُنَّ أكثر أهل النار. فقالت امرأة منهن جَزْلة: وما لنا يا رسول الله أكثرُ أهل النار؟ قال: تُكْثِرْنَ اللَّعن، وتَكْفُرْنَ العشير، وما رأيت من ناقصاتِ عقلٍ ودين أغلبَ لذي لبٍّ مِنْكُن. قالت يا رسول الله وما نقصانُ العقل والدين؟ قال: أما نُقصانُ العقل فشهادة امرأتين تعْدِلُ شهادةَ رَجُل، فهذا نقصان العقل، وتَمكثُ الليالي ما تُصلي، وتُفطر في رمضان، فهذا نقصان الدين. ومعنى الجَزْلة أي ذات العقل والرأي والوقار، وتَكْفُرْنَ العشير أي تُنكرن حق الزوج.
    You see, this is not my word, nor my interpretation. So I did not come up with something new here. But what you did is just to explain to me why Moslem God said what he said and why He considered women less liable than men. Which is diverting completely from the issue. I don’t need to know why, I only feel degraded that the one who supposedly created me, attests that my brains is not developed yet, if God failed to complete my creation, then He is attesting to His own incompetence. And this is my Problem with Islam.

    Reply

  23. AyyA
    Jun 08, 2007 @ 20:06:29

    You-sif
    Weather you meant it or not, your comment reeked of prejedicy. And I think this is our main problem when we deal with gay issue in our society.
    You-sif,
    I’m a mother, and you may be a father. Did you ever ask yourself what would happen to you if you found out someday that your son or daughter is gay? Or you’d most probably think that this could never happen to me, but what if it is closer to home than you think? Wouldn’t you want to know what is wrong with your kid (if there is anything wrong) before judging him, if you want to be fair? And how could elshar3 or the society help you deal with this matter when everyone shuns you out?
    Now this is exactly what I’m talking about. People differ in their sexual oriatations. If one feels that there is a deficiency, we should be able to deal with it in some civilized way, instead of pretending that it does not exist, or criminalizing it. And that matter should be left to the experts in this field and not the parliament.
    And talking about the parliament, it is amazing how altabtabai mixed all cards by deliberately using gays’ issue as an excuse to pass his policing of virtue law on the whole country!!

    Reply

  24. blacklight
    Jun 09, 2007 @ 10:37:23

    Dear Ayya
    guess my reply will be a lengthy one hope u enjoy it 🙂

    historical facts:
    Sodomy actions including homosexual behavior were always there even during Islamic golden age days(as Muslims call it)
    check this out :
    http://www.islameyat.com/pal/aldalil/tamato3_shouzouz/tamato3_shouzouz.htm

    Defected freedom :
    i noticed lately either from my debates in the liberal forum and from the replies ive just read in your blogg that people cant adapt with the basic principles of freedom and whenever they disapprove an opinion or behavior they label it as “harm” or “violation”. I think Im gonna write a topic about this issue cuz people specially arabs and Muslims think of freedom as a bad value that threat their sick rigid social infrastructure.

    regarding gays and lesbians:
    Homosexuals are individuals who have full citizenship rights their behavior or attitude is not a justification to strip them from those rights. those are not my words thats basic citizenship definition .

    As for the PM clowns who claim to be liberals:
    Al-Sager wants to implement his own agenda and settle the score with Ali Alkhalefah i.e his not doing that for in the name of patriotism his doing it for personal revenge.
    Al-Rashed is a member who decided to dedicate all his effort to defend our corrupted judicial system and polish it with endless praises rather than defending our rights or freedom as citizens. I dont see them close to liberalism at all.

    Reply

  25. you-sif
    Jun 09, 2007 @ 11:19:36

    أولا فال الله ولا فالك
    والله يحفظ عيالنا من هالمصايب
    ثم لماذا تفترضين اننا بلا إحساس ولا نتعاطف مع هذه الفئة ولا نشعر بآلامهم النفسية .. لذلك اوافقك الراي بأنهم يحتاجون الى مختصين ليعالجون نفسيتهم المركبة ولكننا نعيش أزمة فقدان المختصين بهذا المجال وبكثير من المجالات الأخرى في الواقع
    و بالمقابل المجتمع لن يقف مكتوف الأيدي لهذه الفوضى .. بل من الواجب على المجتمعات ممثلة بالمجالس التشريعية وضع القوانين التي تساهم بالحلول
    وبما أننا مجتمع مسلم للمرة الألف ولسنا مجتمع علماني لكي يكون الأمر اعتياديا
    وعلى أية حال .. اجازة سعيدة
    cheers

    Reply

  26. Edrak
    Jun 09, 2007 @ 17:36:21

    Dear ayya,

    you began explaining to me then you said you dont need to know .. ? Whats wrong with you ? dudess?.

    you said
    (You see, this is not my word, nor my interpretation. So I did not come up with something new here. But what you did is just to explain to me why Moslem God said what he said and why He considered women less liable than men. Which is diverting completely from the issue. I don’t need to know why, I only feel degraded that the one who supposedly created me, attests that my brains is not developed yet, if God failed to complete my creation, then He is attesting to His own incompetence. And this is my Problem with Islam.)

    he says there is abiological difference and its not degrading .. thats because you want to take it as so. I dont blame you since most of the ti,e you stereotype instead of thinking for yourself.

    you strike at Islam at any given time and place without trying to research the topic .. you say seculars gave the woman a better stand point than Islam we see the following:

    Charlotte Perkins Gilman:
    There is no female mind. The brain is not an organ of sex. As well speak of a female liver.

    Laurel Thatcher Ulrich:
    Well behaved women rarely make history.

    Charlotte Perkins Gilman:
    The original necessity for the ceaseless presence of the woman to maintain the altar fire — and it was an altar fire in very truth at one period — has passed with the means of prompt ignition; the matchbox has freed the housewife from that incessant service, but the feeling that women should stay at home is with us yet

    Sigmund Freud:
    Despite my thirty years of research into the feminine soul, I have not been able to answer… the great question that has never been answered: what does a woman want?

    Oscar Wilde
    As long as a woman can look ten years younger than her own daughter, she is perfectly satisfied.”

    Direct thought is not an attribute of feminity. In this, women are now centuries behind man.”
    Thomas Edison

    When a woman becomes a scholar there is usually something wrong with her sexual organs.”
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Nature intended women to be our slaves. They are our property.”
    Napolean Bonaparte

    If women didn’t exist, all the money in the world would have no meaning.”
    Aristotle Onassis

    Women are nothing but machines for producing children.”
    Napolean Bonaparte

    Women are like elephants. Everyone likes to look at them but no-one likes to have to keep one.”
    WC Fields

    now you can choose to see things for yourself and try not to show you racist remarks and your stereotyped judgements but facts still are facts.. I admit there may be wrong interpretations from some few but that does not mean Islam is wrong. You say your secular and these people are secular and they think that women are no more that an alien thing. Islam differentiates between man and woman cuz there are variations and certain aspects come with those variations. If you want to ignore them thats ok but dont say he`s degrading me.. why didn`t i say god degraded me because mothers have a better chance in entering heaven ? Why should i hold on to this burdon of giving money to women and its an order i can`t say no.. ? Because i dont see things like you .. i try to counterpoint ..
    As Edward Said Said once.. if you can`t interpret and try to understand thing from two perspectives try Metaphorical exile… and you may google that out and try to apply it ( i dont think you will )

    you said:
    (. This means it is supposed to be clear for a layman or bedouins to understand)

    How racist is that ?

    you have to consult with a shrink !
    people who hate are those who fear.

    what do you fear ?

    you can refer to :

    it has answers for you and beleive me ayya i like you and im always entering your blog but what your saying sometimes says alot about what are you and i dont want people like you going on and hell dont know what they`re doing.
    I think you`re a good person but you just need to be fair and stop the mocking frenzy you started with.

    Reply

  27. AyyA
    Jun 09, 2007 @ 21:45:16

    Blacklight
    Your contribution is always rich bro, thanks. And some of the materials on the link you provided are very disturbing, so I guess I should warn others 😉
    “I think Im gonna write a topic about this issue cuz people specially arabs and Muslims think of freedom as a bad value that threat their sick rigid social infrastructure.”
    I think we are in desperate need for such article. It’s really sad how some religious values can deprive man from his humanity. How can it create hate and prejudices.
    Can’t wait 🙂
    You-sif
    “و بالمقابل المجتمع لن يقف مكتوف الأيدي لهذه الفوضى .. بل من الواجب على المجتمعات ممثلة بالمجالس التشريعية وضع القوانين التي تساهم بالحلول”
    Agree with you, except that this should be done at a later stage when enough studies, scientific studies and not religious ones, are performed. And not just issuing a bill that includes everybody. The law as it is, is policing and interfering into other people’s business.
    Edrak
    Like all Islamists’ answers, Zakir Naik give an explanation WHY God discriminates between genders. And he did not come up with anything that I did not learn by heart since my childhood schooling. Remember, I was raised as a Moslem, and I’m not a new comer in this faith to take this nonsense. Yet; you still did not answer my question. And I don’t believe that you would be able to, since it seems to me that you did not understand my argument in the first place.
    Thanks anyway for participating.

    Reply

  28. Edrak
    Jun 10, 2007 @ 16:40:27

    What question was that ? you asked lots of questions and some of them seems to be rhetorical. running away and trying not to answer is a good way of saying i dont know what the hell im thinking about. Be precise and i shall answer any given question. i dont have anything to hide like some 🙂

    Thank you too for trying to reply back

    Reply

  29. Edrak
    Jun 10, 2007 @ 16:42:08

    ( Like all Islamists’ answers, Zakir Naik give an explanation WHY God discriminates between genders. And he did not come up with anything that I did not learn by heart since my childhood schooling)

    so what is the answer that suits you ? stop being vague and try to be more straight forward. If you dont understand the term reasoning thats not my bad. Its due to your intuition that leads you to this complications.

    Reply

  30. AyyA
    Jun 10, 2007 @ 23:10:33

    Edrak
    انت يبيلك بوست مو كومنت
    Coming up soon

    Reply

  31. Edrak
    Jun 11, 2007 @ 16:45:20

    i will be waiting for it with passion 🙂

    Reply

  32. harmonie22
    Jul 08, 2007 @ 10:13:06

    Ayya, you should read Amina Wadud and Nimat Barazangi. They are Muslim women (American and Syrian, respectively) scholars who are well versed in fiqh and classical Arabic and have, through interpreting the actual verses in the Koran and in the mechanics of classical Arabic grammar, demonstrated that it is the interpretations that are wrong in deducing that women are inferiors to men in Islam by using the exact language / words of the Koran.

    Reply

  33. AyyA
    Jul 09, 2007 @ 00:32:18

    Harmo
    Quran interpreters are so many, and most of the interpretations are contradictory to each other. The reason, in my opinion, is that the text and canon itself calls for such contradictions. Therefore none can convince me.

    Reply

  34. harmonie22
    Jul 09, 2007 @ 03:29:41

    “the text and canon itself calls for such contradictions”
    Nicely put.

    I just moved to the US six months ago and have been very curious about what’s being said on this side of the globe, you don’t hear much in Kuwait.

    By no means am I trying to convince you of anything, just sharing. I’m a Foucault fan, who says that the most powerful currency is that of words and he who controls words controls everything, I guess I’m personally just excited about all this dialogue coming from women who are challenging traditional schools of thought.

    On another note, I will definitely send you that paper and would love any feedback you have. Thanks!

    Reply

  35. AyyA
    Jul 09, 2007 @ 05:21:21

    “By no means am I trying to convince you of anything”
    Ah, I did not mean you dear, I meant the writers you mentioned. To me they’re no different than the ones who try to find miracles through the text of Quran. The words of God should be clear and to the point. But as long as the text is subject to different interpretations, of which some contradict others, then it ceases to be the word of God, but the words of whom interpreted them. 🙂

    Reply

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