Londonstan

Last night I watched a CNN documentary about Islamization of the West called “The War Within” conducted by the renowned Christiana Amanpour. And about two months ago I read a book written by Melanie Phillips titled “Londonstan”. And although I think that Christiana did a great job in presenting the different points of view of English Moslems; the radical and the moderate. But I think she was missing a great deal in her report. And it seemed that this very thing puzzled her when she was debating what Islam really says when she questioned the two parties. I think she would have had a better insight if she had at least consulted Phillips before conducting her report. The Islamization in Brittan is a huge threat, not only to Brittan but the whole world. A secular state like England has given refuge to war victims and radicalists for decades. Gave them the taste of freedom and human rights. The very human rights propaganda they are using today to destroy Brittan’s secularism and security, as well as the security of the world. Most world terrorists’ acts were masterminded in Brittan, they deported terrorists to the USA, Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa and the rest of the world. Mosque preachers are ex-Afghan fighters, so what do you expect? Christiana seemed puzzled by the preaching of Islam; does it promote the killing of the young and innocent people or it doesn’t? Well surprise, surprise Christina, it does and it doesn’t. This is what Islam is based on; contradictions. And since its contradictions are beyond the laypeople like us, you would never have a definite answer, because it is left to man to decide. Even the moderate Moslems who tell you that this killing is not permitted in Islam, down at their hearts they fully know that they are liars, because Jihad is farth. And farth means mandatory in Islamic belief. There is no radicalism in Islam. Islam is the religion of radicalism. The only way England has to save its skin is to teach those barbarians how to live within the secular society and respect its laws. And if they want to apply the shareea, let them go back to their caves and tents where they belong.

I wish I could play all the clip

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152 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. mosan
    Jan 22, 2007 @ 13:56:42

    My dear Ayya this is typical propaganda against the Arabs and Muslims, they only show the bad side, this is all in support for Israel to divert attention from there atrocities.
    How come they never show anything positive?
    How come they don’t show the truth about Israel?

    Most people in the west are ignorant about us. These type of programming is dangerous for people like us. This will only fuel things instead of trying to understand them in order to find the solution.

    Shame on them, and they say they are open minded. Fyi there are Christian radicals and white supremacist in both the UK and US that are worst than the Muslims that are depicted in the clip.

    This is totally IRRSPONSIABLE of who ever made or will make selective programming like that to brain wash the masses.

    Don’t be blinded and look at the issue from all sides. Look at the wider picture

    THINK

    Reply

  2. Sever
    Jan 22, 2007 @ 14:39:18

    These contradictions!

    Yes, that’s what I see as a problem in Islam.
    You know, it’s turned to a person (or leader) to decide what it means exactly & in which case.
    In families it’s a man usually.

    So, understending Islam depends on:
    – geographic location
    – type of country
    – parents
    – study
    – etc.

    So, there is no something what can be called “Islam”. When a person says “I’m Moslem”, you must get a lot of information to know – which Moslem exactly he is?

    & about England… that’s a country for searching for shelter. Look at our oligarchs
    & Moslem leaders.
    It seems to me sometimes that England had a plan to be protected from terrorists by such hospitality.

    Reply

  3. The Extreme Moderate
    Jan 22, 2007 @ 17:29:23

    There is not a *single* contradiction in the entire Qur’an; not one. You make these claims without giving a shred of evidence to support them. Your kind are well known.

    Muslims certainly cannot kill innocent people. The only time killing is allowed is in Jihad, and even then old people, the chronically sick, women, children, priests/monks/nuns, and any non-combatant are strictly off limits.

    But you didn’t know that, did you?

    Also, Jihad can be farth 3ain and farth kifaayya. Since you know so much, I don’t have to explain the two types, do I?

    Reply

  4. Geopolitical
    Jan 22, 2007 @ 20:02:43

    In the name of god most high,

    So you are a secularist huh? This is quiet interesting because I’ve never seen so much propaganda in my life. how can you associate hezbollah/Iran/Shiasm with Wahabism/Sunnism that’s pretty ignorant if you ask me unless you want me to educate you on the major differences between the two. Jihad is not only by taking up arms, Jihad is through education, Jihad is to make one’s self clear of sin and to repent. Then again you seem like you are completely westernized to the fact you believe you can mix to major differences and enemies (Iran and Saudi Arabia) together.

    So let us begin to see what Secularism has done to it’s population. Egypt a country which has been on an “emergency” government since the assassination of Anwar sadaat, Saddam killing over 300,000 of his own people and waging war against his nieghbours is he a radical Muslim to? He followed baathism idealogy which is basically socialist/secular. Should we look at Jordan a country which is also based on secularism and it has one of the largest population affiliated with al qaeda, so how come secularism didn’t work there? Look at Bolivia and many former south American countries whom are were over thrown by the U.S government to install so called democratic governments and did nothing but slaughter their own people to crush any form of opposition. Shall i post up pictures and articles as to who funded Al qaeda in Afghanistan to counter Soviet influence. Or should i post pictures of Saddam shaking hands with Donald Rumsfield or would you like the long article on how British companies helped Saddam develop weapons of mass destruction and later the U.S air force destroyed it because the war with Iran ended. Did you forget Israel has a nuclear arsenal and that Olmert admitted to this on state television? did you forget Israel are the ones who invaded Lebanon and Palestine? All these are secular governments so why do they show no mercy to other populations.

    Did you forget that in the 1981-1988 war with Iran Kuwait (a secular monarchy) funded Saddam with $20 billion and the U.S put American flags on Kuwaiti oil tankers being shipped to Iraq to counter bankruptcy didn’t they know this man gassed people and used chemical weapons wow he was secular too.

    SO before you begin to bash the Islamists i think you should remember who put them in power in the first place (Mainly al qaeda, taliban etc.) Thank you.

    Reply

  5. NewMe
    Jan 23, 2007 @ 00:30:38

    اشعر باختناق وبحاجة ملحة للبكاء
    أيا ماذا فعلت؟
    الوضع المحتقن شيء
    أما رؤيته وسماعه بوضوح
    فأمر آخر
    حزينة متألمة
    وجع يقطع الأوصال
    دمت بحب
    تحياتي

    Reply

  6. iDip
    Jan 23, 2007 @ 01:55:00

    the title reminds me of a “new statesman”* issue, the cover showed a photoshopped picture of muslims praying & Big Ben in the background. I think I still have this issue, will look for it.

    I read a book titled: ولادة الافغان العرب
    by Abdullah Anans, an algerian “ex-mujahid”, and what I liked about this guy is related to the last paragraph in your post.

    At the end of the book, he expressed his gratitude & appreciation to UK, the country that gave him a life with dignity & freedom, and the chance to publish his book.
    I think such statement is very rare, how many other islamists or ex-islamists have showed such appreciation to the countries that offered them a safe haven?

    * http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-1001542/Why-the-French-call-us.html

    Reply

  7. AyyA
    Jan 23, 2007 @ 09:28:14

    Mosano babe
    When a country is too weak to provide for it’s citizens and unable to compete with demanding challenges, it’s leaders tend to create an outside enemy so that it would get away with criticism or may be toppling. And this is our situation in the Arab and Islamic world. But our leaders don’t need this external enemy since it already exists in the scriptures. All they need to do is to collaborate with Islamists who would be more than happy to promote that. Sects may differ on many thing, yet they always agree on annihilating the Jews, it’s an order from God. But what these leaders don’t know is that they are creating a bigger enemy inside. An enemy that would crush them in no time without mercy. Egypt’s Mobarak had just realized that, although a bit too late. We Kuwaitis are facing the same dilemma. Now I don’t care what are the intentions of the ones who did this clip, but nevertheless; it is portraying reality. We can’t sit quite laman elfas yi6ee7 bilras (as they say). They are very organized and they have a mission. And they may differ in many ways, yet they all agree on one aspect, which is destroying the sources of democracy and implementing the sharee3a. They want Islam to conquer all other religions. Alkhilafa Alislamiya is their ultimate goal and dream. Not to say that they will get what they want, since they can’t be united under one flag, but they sure would cause a lot of loss to humanity and may be lead to a world war. And this time the war is not as the previous ones with Iran and Israel as well as the US possessing nuclear weapons. We are sitting on a bomb that is ticking; it’s only a matter of time for it to burst.
    Years back London was a place you would go for recreation, nowadays you can’t go through one of it’s suburbs without noticing how much it had changed, you hardly recognize it from the Asians, as if you are in Pakistan or Afghanistan. Now what would happen to us if the situation got worse at home with the spread of Islamization and we decided to take refuge in one of these secular states? These people are multiplying by the second, occupying certain territories, having their own madrassas, Mosques, their own representatives in the House of Commons, and now demanding Islamic laws to be applied on English Moslems? Come on, give me a break.

    Reply

  8. AyyA
    Jan 23, 2007 @ 09:54:11

    Sever
    The leniency that the British government had exercised towards those radicals is really surprising. May be the government thought that by showing them what democracy and freedom tastes like, this would have an impact on their paradigm shift. Well, this tactic may have worked on some, but it failed drastically when you compare the number of radicalists that is rising in proportion to more moderate ones. And the big bang on the head was London underground bombing that shook the English who thought that danger is away from home. But I hope it’s not too late.
    Now for the intelligence to monitor fundamental acts without jeopardizing it’s citizen’s right is very complicated in a secular country like England. Places like Mosques and madrassas where the seeds of such radicalism are planted is forbidden areas. Unlike the States where, I think, it’s size as well as it’s intelligence provided much easier control.
    I got this on an E-mail from a friend, please check and see for yourself that whenever a Moslem can get away with it, he will apply his rules.
    http://ar.danielpipes.org/article/4053

    Reply

  9. AyyA
    Jan 23, 2007 @ 09:57:22

    TEM
    Take off your Shaded glasses, and you will see things clearer.

    Reply

  10. AyyA
    Jan 23, 2007 @ 11:42:25

    Geo
    “how can you associate hezbollah/Iran/Shiasm with Wahabism/Sunnism that’s pretty ignorant if you ask me unless you want me to educate you on the major differences between the two”
    Oh yes, there is a major difference between the two, the only thing they share and would not disagree on is the common enemy and women.

    “Jihad is not only by taking up arms, Jihad is through education, Jihad is to make one’s self clear of sin and to repent.”
    True, and the Islamists had done a great job in the directed, fascist education the poor generation is forced into, in all Arab and Moslem countries. Let alone the Net; I get loads of junck mail every day from “yamoslem” group and “Moslemmail”. Check what i got in the last couple of hours:

    محب” “الجنـان
    [Yamuslim] خـاص لـلـبـنـات Jan 22 19KB
    Unknown Sender almoslem [Yamuslim] ما هي كيفية صلاة المريض؟ Jan 22 28KB
    Unknown Sender ***hajikhan*** [Yamuslim] guest Jan 22 14KB
    Unknown Sender ***hajikhan*** [Yamuslim] seek refuge in Allah Jan 22 17KB
    Unknown Sender Attachment waheed solaiman [Yamuslim] وصايا جميلة Jan 22 63KB
    Unknown Sender Nesma nanos [MuslimMail] معنى السياسة !!! Jan 22 32KB
    Unknown Sender Nesma nanos [MuslimMail] لكل واحد عايز يشتغل Jan 22 380KB
    Unknown Sender Ayat Hadith A Day [MuslimMail] Ayat Hadith A Day – Muharra… Jan 22 24KB
    Unknown Sender majid saleem [MuslimMail] Rulings on New HIJRI (Migrat… Jan 22 27KB
    Unknown Sender Attachment Nesma nanos [MuslimMail] FW: الحصاله في غرفة النوم-فك… Jan 22 65KB
    Unknown Sender Ayat Hadith A Day [MuslimMail] Ayat Hadith A Day – Muharra… Jan 22 26KB
    Unknown Sender majed al-ahmed [MuslimMail] لماذا اختار المسلمون الهجرة … Jan 22 22KB
    Unknown Sender majed al-ahmed [MuslimMail] الهجرة.. دروس في التخطيط الح… Jan 22 34KB
    Unknown Sender majed al-ahmed [Yamuslim] لماذا اختار المسلمون الهجرة مب… Jan 22 20KB
    Unknown Sender majed al-ahmed [Yamuslim] الهجرة.. دروس في التخطيط الحدي… Jan 22 32KB

    what a waste!!!
    Actually the biggest organized Islamic network in the world is “Islam on line” where it’s biggest spiritual mentor is Yosif Algardawi, the most inflectional conservative Islamic scholar today.

    “Egypt a country which has been on an “emergency” government since the assassination of Anwar sadaat, Saddam killing over 300,000 of his own people and waging war against his nieghbours is he a radical Muslim to? He followed baathism idealogy which is basically socialist/secular. Should we look at Jordan a country which is also based on secularism and it has one of the largest population affiliated with al qaeda, so how come secularism didn’t work there?”

    All the above mentioned countries are not secular, in fact; the closest to secularism in the whole Middle East is Israel.
    Are you telling me that we Moslems and Arabs are so stupid and naïve to be used by the States? No one had suffered as much as the Japanese from US foreign policy, yet I do not see them turning into monsters, in fact, they amazed the world by their consistency to compete with modern world using their technology.

    “Did you forget Israel has a nuclear arsenal and that Olmert admitted to this on state television?”
    No I did not, and that’s why I am stressing that using force is the weapon of the past, using force today means total annihilation. Today we need to compete with the world with our knowledge and technology, too much brains are wasted in hatred and fatwas of silly matters like clipping nails being 7aram or 7alal. These minds hardly have a space to think rationally, let alone creatively

    Reply

  11. AyyA
    Jan 23, 2007 @ 12:00:13

    NewMe
    Sorry my dear, but I can’t help it, the cancer is growing and we are feeding it with our money and our children. Every innocent soul taken bleeds my heart a thousand times a day.

    IDip
    Most of the ones seeking refuge in the west were in fact oppressed in their own countries. And they do appreciate the freedom of a secular country, but unfortunately it’s the new generation that is being mentally kidnapped. I saw a documentary of the parents of one of London bombers right after the incident, and you would not believe the grieve and shock that took over their faces.

    Reply

  12. soud13
    Jan 23, 2007 @ 12:22:58

    I believe that Britain should be granted asylum on condition that they not engage in any acts contrary to the community or to export terrorism and religious ideology to the outside or inside

    Reply

  13. AyyA
    Jan 23, 2007 @ 12:24:35

    Ah, iDip, talking about being mentally kidnapped. I had the opportunity to meet a Kuwaiti ex-terrorist, well almost; he repented right before killing a Canadian friend of mine. I’ve been trying for sometime now to persuade him to write his story, and how he met those people, and what did he go through, and what made him change his mind. I wanted to publish his story with his own words. But so far I haven’t been successful; he is still hesitant about it. And btw; I met him through the Canadian friend whom became his buddy later.

    Reply

  14. AyyA
    Jan 23, 2007 @ 12:31:52

    The problem Soud is with the Islamophobia that Moslems are generating in the West. The British can’t take harsh measures with the ones who promote terrorism so that it would not seem to be racist. The government treats them with more leniency than the regular criminals, although their danger on the society is much more sever. And the Islamists are using this very well

    Reply

  15. zaydoun
    Jan 23, 2007 @ 15:33:04

    Ayya.. he repented BEFORE killing the Canadian?

    Reply

  16. AyyA
    Jan 23, 2007 @ 19:48:02

    Big Z
    Yes, and he befriended him later and told him the whole story, and that’s how I got to know it.

    Reply

  17. Geopolitical
    Jan 24, 2007 @ 03:58:44

    Aya

    lol so you are stating that Israel is a secular government? well be it secular or not the Jew orthodox sure have a lot of influence in it and certainly they have taken up arms to put this government so to me this government does not even exist there is no Israel.

    Secondly yes SUNNI-Arabs have done nothing but mess up the middle east from Pan-Arabs all the way to Sunni extremists, it is time for the true Muslims to restore peace. Please lol try to learn the difference between Iran and Saudi Arabia, women are scientists in Iran, they have jobs, they work, they drive, they do a lot of things, and they are even policewomen fully trained. something you don’t even have in Kuwait 😉

    Salam.

    Reply

  18. AyyA
    Jan 24, 2007 @ 05:39:41

    Well, Last time I visited Iran people were living on coupons and rations off of mulla’s charities. Are your women still available as one nightstand to please religion students of 7ousas in Qum?

    Reply

  19. sicko
    Jan 24, 2007 @ 19:26:26

    miss ayya how ya doin !
    do u know any way we can contact ben ?
    he’s missing and its been almost 2 weeks now .
    sorry to bother ya

    Reply

  20. AyyA
    Jan 24, 2007 @ 20:42:17

    Hey Sicko
    The only thing I have is his e-mail
    benkerishan@hotmail.com
    But why do you think he’s missing may be he’s just too busy to post

    Reply

  21. Hadji
    Jan 24, 2007 @ 23:54:59

    Ayya:

    I don’t know if I should even bother responding to any of this.

    There is just so much to respond to here and there, but I don’t really see much coming out of putting my time into this.

    By the way, Ayya, who is your target audience?

    Geopolitical:

    “Please lol try to learn the difference between Iran and Saudi Arabia, women are scientists in Iran, they have jobs, they work, they drive, they do a lot of things, and they are even policewomen fully trained.”

    I’m sure they do. I doubt that women in Iran could ever go jobless. I guess we have Zawaj Al Muta’a to thank for that.

    I’m suprised Ayya didn’t respond by saying what I just did sooner. You’re not getting rusty are you? =p

    …I expect a counter attack.

    Reply

  22. AyyA
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 00:44:12

    Hadji
    I believe you just reiterated what I said to Geo, what’s the matter with you kiddo, can’t you read between the lines? :p

    Reply

  23. AyyA
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 01:46:58

    Ah and about my target audience; check the link “about” on the top right hand side of my blog and figure that out.

    Reply

  24. Geopolitical
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 03:46:45

    lol Ayya do you have any proof to claim what you have said? Secondly even i mean even if this happened i do not suppose any Arab country (excluding Iraq after 1991) has faced as much sanctions as Iran did, a 8 year long war, a 5 front insurgency from MKO, PKK, Jondallah, Iranian national front, and the Taliban(before the u.s even funded them) Secondly Iran was largely funding hezbollah, funding Sryia, funding Shia militias in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia as well as bahrain to counter all American/Pan-Arab/Sunni influence.

    Zawaaj al mut’a is strictly permisable in our faith and I would like to point out the sunni zawaj al orfy and Mesyar which is very similar and infact illegal in Kuwait while Mut’a is allowed in Kuwait. lol You can check that with the kuwaiti authorities.

    Can you please bring me proof that the women are there to please religious people in the Hawza’s of qom? I don’t really know where you bring your statements, secondly if Iran does have any form of poverty they currently are undergoing sanctions and a Nuclear program which usually causes a big downfall in the economy please check China in the 50’s and Russia in the 50’s, Pakistan in the 70’s and India as well as North Korea during the 90’s. all of them didn’t even have HALF the amount of sanctions Iran does.

    I would like to point out that in Kuwait there is a lot of relationships between Males and females some are even married, atleast in Iran when a woman goes out you don’t see the guys shouting like they have not seen a woman before lol recently on Eid in Kuwait, Saudis trashed Souq al sharq and no one really did much to stop them, what is this, do the saudi’s have more influence then the locals? An American citizen/British Citizen has more influence then the locals is this also another sign that the locals have no influence? Or would you like me to refresh your memory about the Bedoon issue (without in English) in Kuwait some of them face extreme poverty and go as far as creating brothels to survive.

    At least Iran has some form of powerful influence and is the true power of the region today. I feel sorry for you if you cannot accept this fact i suggest you read the following book “The Shia revival :How conflicts within Islam will shape the future” By Vali Nassr.

    Your country’s future is one of the following scenario’s said by most analysts:

    1) Kuwait will have no oil left due to the large amount of theft in the government it’s self. i.e. saying that in 1973 they had a certain amount of oil believed to be 70-90 billion barrels. In 2005 they said that they have the same amount and OPEC have called on Kuwait to name the true value because of the amount of theft not only from the middlemen but even the high officials all stealing oil from their own soil.

    2) Because Kuwait builds nothing and cannot even simply create a match without the help of foreign companies and their assistance (I repeat Iran is 90% self sufficient) an alternative for oil will be achieved either by nuclear energy or Hydro energy please check hybrid technology. What will Kuwaitis do then? Go back to swimming for pearls?

    3)A large sectarian conflict from Iraq will spread throughout the Middle East causing chaos even in little Kuwait, unless your secular governments do actually talk to Iran and Syria which apparently they are not doing.

    So good luck my dear friend your view of “secularism” has no place in the region anymore Iran’s public maybe poor but they surely have the influence to cause any form of havoc and chaos to those whom want to disturb them.

    P.S: Iran’s Mullah’s will stay for a very very long time. Stop believing Pro-Shah MKO PKK and Jondallah supporters abroad lol they really have little say anymore.

    Reply

  25. AyyA
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 05:47:18

    Geo
    “Iran’s economy, once one of the most advanced in the Middle East, was crippled by the 1979 Islamic revolution, the Iran–Iraq war, and attendant economic mismanagement. The June 2005 presidential election elevated Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to power and halted tentative efforts to reform the state-dominated economy; instead, Ahmadinejad has promised the poor a greater share of Iran’s oil wealth, greater subsidies, and greater state control. High world oil prices have raised export revenues and helped to service Iran’s large foreign debt, but the economy remains burdened by high unemployment, inflation, corruption, expensive subsidies, and a bloated and inefficient public sector”

    This was taken from “Index of Economic Freedom”. If you care to read more، this is the site
    http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/country.cfm?id=Iran
    Unless it’s blocked in your country.

    And did you notice how much your comment made Iran sound like Hitler’s Nazi Germany? And btw, that was in 1933, now we are in 2007.

    And talking about human rights; what rights have you granted the minorities; namely Christians, Jews and mostly Baha2’s? how about women and their right to take off their headscarf? How about freedom of speech?
    Read here more about that
    http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/12/12/iran14824.htm

    And by comparing Iran to other Islamic states on the bases of Shiite and Sunni’s, you are only proving to me that one is worse than the other. It is enough that the most supporting state of terrorism in the whole Middle East area is Iran; and it’s clear intervention in Iraq and Lebanon attests to that. As for Israel; it may have been build over the orthodox Jews ideology, but at the end of the day, each citizen has the right to scrutinize the government or any high officials without the fear of being detained or may be killed as is done in Iran, or other parts of the Islamic states for that matter.

    Oh and talking about Muta; I have a nice read for you, the book’s title is “ To God Then to History” by Husain Alomosawi. You can download it from here, I hope you can read Arabic
    http://www.khayma.com/wahbi/Research/dawnlod/Main.htm
    And again sorry if this site is blocked where you live :p

    Reply

  26. Geopolitical
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 07:17:49

    First off I am Kuwaiti of Iranian origin. and i have lived in Iran in the past and i did not really see “blocked” websites unless they had very very powerful negative views of propganda against Iran which the United States does by spying on those people. (hence they have admitted that they spy on phone calls etc and i am pretty sure arab countries do worse and so does Israel)

    Secondly, again a anti-Iranian website which really does not get to the point why Iran has inflation or why Iran suffers, did you actually look at Iran’s neighbors before? Iran has to build a powerful military which is formidable enough for its enemies do you think money grows on trees? Also a lot of research is required for gods sake Iran developed technology in 27 years the Arab countries cannot do in 100. Iran is competing with Israel lol.

    As for freedom of religion, all religions in Iran have their freedom and the right to believe except bahasim your claim is true here, but bahasim is usually regarded as a non-islamic sects in almost every Arab/Muslim country be it secular or not. Oh yea let me get you the link for IDF (Israeli defense forces) abusing protests in Israel

    So if i support a freedom fighter, someone who is fighting for his land I am a sponsor of terrorism? wow you echo the speeches of the neo-cons are you still affected by the 1991 “liberation” of Kuwait by the United States? lol or are do you actually believe what G.W.Bush says in his speeches lol. You are living proof of young people being affected by the American media. Please do not forget Israel invaded Lebanon not vice versa.

    Oh yes i would love to read the website about mut’a lol let’s see how authentic this is before i begin to laugh. I just hope it is not Salafi/Wahabi or pretty much tangled with like other alleged shia printed books i have seen which are different to the ones printed in Qom or in fact maybe you lack the knowledge of Shia faith lol.

    Reply

  27. Geopolitical
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 07:35:35

    http://www.khayma.com/fnoor/fn0225.htm

    The page cannot be found

    Can you at least provide something that is there? lol

    But hey before i actually go offline now I would like to show you what once upon a time your so called “democratic Israeli government officials” once were.

    Haganah the jewish militia:
    In 1936 the Haganah fielded 10,000 mobilized men along with 40,000 reservists. During the 1936-1939 Arab revolt in Palestine, it participated actively to protect British interests and to quell Arab rebellion. Although the British administration did not officially recognize the Haganah, the British security forces cooperated with it by forming the Jewish Settlement Police, Jewish Auxiliary Forces and Special Night Squads. The battle experience gained in the Great Uprising was to become very useful in the 1948 Arab-Israeli war.

    In 1931, the most right-wing elements of Haganah branched off and formed Irgun Tsva’i-Leumi (the National Military Organization), better known as “Irgun” (or by its Hebrew acronym, pronounced “HaEtsel”). They were discontented with the policy of restraint when faced with British and Arab pressure. Irgun later split as well in 1940, and their off-shoot became known as the “Lehi” (Hebrew acronym of Lochamei Herut Israel, standing for Freedom Fighters of Israel, and also known by the British as the “Stern Gang” after its leader, Abraham Stern).

    The British severely restricted Jewish immigration to Palestine by 1939. In response, the Haganah created the Palmach — (the Palmach was actually formed by the British in response to the threat of German invasion by Rommel’s forces. It went underground after it felt betrayed by the British at the end of 1942 after Rommel had been defeated) the Haganah’s strike force, which also organized illegal Jewish immigration to Palestine. Approximately 100,000 Jews were brought to Palestine in over one hundred ships during the final decade of the Ha’apala. It also organized demonstrations against British immigration quotas.

    In 1944, in response to the assassination of Lord Moyne (the British Minister of State for the Middle East) by members of the Jewish Lehi underground, the Haganah worked with the British to round up, interrogate, and, in some cases, deport Irgun members. This action was called the Saison (or hunting season), and seriously demoralized the Irgun and reduced its activities.

    The Saison did not, however, stop the Irgun, the Haganah, and the Stern Group from working together. The three groups had different functions, which served to move the British out of Palestine, and to make Palestine a Jewish state (versus creating a Jewish home in Palestine). As Menachem Begin, an Irgun commander, stated in a 1944 meeting: “In fact, there is a division of roles; One organisation advocates individual terrorism (the Lehi), the other conducts sporadic military operations (the Irgun) and there is a third organisation which prepares itself to throw its final weight in the decisive war.”

    the Haganah carried out anti-British operations in Palestine, such as the liberation of interned immigrants from the Atlit camp, the bombing of the country’s railroad network, sabotage raids on radar installations and bases of the British police. It also continued to organize illegal immigration.

    On May 28, 1948, less than two weeks after the creation of the state of Israel on May 15, the provisional government created the Israeli Defense Forces which would succeed the Haganah. It also outlawed maintenance of any other armed force. Irgun challenged the decision which led to a brief clash between Haganah and Irgun. Eventually Irgun laid down their weapons and Menachem Begin transformed his militia to a political party, the Herut.

    Famous members of the Haganah included: Yitzhak Rabin, Ariel Sharon, Rehavam Zeevi, Dov Hoz, Moshe Dayan, and Dr. Ruth Westheimer.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah

    Who funded the terrorists of today? lol

    International involvement and aid to the Afghan insurrection:

    The deployment of Soviet troops in Afghanistan obstructed Pakistan’s efforts to dominate Afghanistan by proxy. United States President Jimmy Carter had accepted the view that “Soviet aggression” could not be viewed as an isolated event of limited geographical importance but had to be contested as a potential threat to the Persian Gulf region. The uncertain scope of the final objective of Moscow in its sudden southward plunge made the American stake in an independent Pakistan all the more important.

    After the Soviet deployment, Pakistan’s military dictator General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq started accepting financial aid from the Western powers to aid the Mujahideen. The United States, the United Kingdom and Saudi Arabia became major financial contributors to General Zia, who, as ruler of a neighboring country, greatly helped by ensuring the Afghan resistance was well-trained and well-funded.

    Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence and Special Service Group now became actively involved in the conflict against the Soviets. After Ronald Reagan became the new United States President in 1981, aid for the Mujahideen through Zia’s Pakistan significantly increased. In retaliation, the KHAD, under Afghan leader Mohammad Najibullah, carried out (according to the Mitrokhin archives and other sources) a large number of operations against Pakistan, which also suffered from an influx of weaponry and drugs from Afghanistan. In the 1980s, as the front-line state in the anti-Soviet struggle, Pakistan received substantial aid from the United States and took in millions of Afghan (mostly Pashtun) refugees fleeing the Soviet occupation. Although the refugees were controlled within Pakistan’s largest province, Balochistan under then-martial law ruler General Rahimuddin Khan, the influx of so many refugees – believed to be the largest refugee population in the world [11] – into several other regions had a heavy impact on Pakistan and its effects continue to this day. Despite this, Pakistan played a significant role in the eventual withdrawal of Soviet military personnel from Afghanistan

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_afghanistan#International_involvement_and_aid_to_the_Afghan_insurrection

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleged_Israeli_war_crimes_during_the_Al-Aqsa_Intifada

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prison#Under_the_US-led_coalition

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guant%C3%A1namo_Bay_detainment_camp

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history#The_United_States

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history

    Do you see Iran on the last link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history? But I do see European countries and they are all secular lol. Was there once a shia genocide against anyone? No i do not think so. Who did committed these attacks in the Arab and Islamic world? Sunnis and secular Muslims. In the west? Just more seculars/Socialists/Communists. good night =)

    Reply

  28. Hadji
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 09:16:11

    Hah! I was surprised that Ayya wasn’t the one to bring up the Mesyar issue.

    “Zawaaj al mut’a is strictly permisable in our faith and I would like to point out the sunni zawaj al orfy and Mesyar which is very similar and infact illegal in Kuwait while Mut’a is allowed in Kuwait. lol You can check that with the kuwaiti authorities. ”

    The religious beliefs of the Kuwaiti authorities is non of my concern. My faith wouldn’t be shaken even if they were to destroy masjids to create more shopping malls.

    Umm… Geopolitical, do you even know what the Mesyar marriage is? If so, can you please state why it is so harmful that it should be outlawed, while prostitution, I mean… Muta’a… is still legal?

    Ayya, is humanity is your target audience?

    Reply

  29. AyyA
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 09:38:42

    Geo
    First of all; I’m really ashamed and sad that these words come from someone who calls himself a Kuwaiti. But; I do not blame you, religion and sectarianism has done it’s damage that the loyalty of a person ceases to be for his country, and remains to be to his religion or sect. If you, the descendant of at least two generations, I presume, feel that way, then what should I say about the British or the American Moslems??? It’s really sad.
    But one consolation is that you present your own thoughts and not the thought of the majorities of Kuwaiti Shiite.
    Second; using the propaganda of defending oneself is over exhausted. Israel says the same thing. Each one is striving for control and power under the motto of defending oneself. Iran does not want to defend itself; Iran simply wants to conquer the world using religion. And your loyalty to Iran proves that its poison had reached Kuwait sooner than I thought, what a shame.

    Reply

  30. AyyA
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 10:12:27

    Geo
    Ok since you like so much to go into politics, let me ask you; who started this whole dilemma called Palestine? Wasn’t it the early Moslems who conquered Palestine?
    Arab’s original land is the Arabian peninsula, and Islam was initiated in there. What would be your feeling as a Moslem if the US or Israel conquered Mecca? And mind you; all the Jews and Christians were deported of their homelands in the Arabian Peninsula because of the hatred of Islam to other religions. The Arabs have no right to claim any other land they conquered. Palestine is rightfully the land of Jews and Christians since Christ was a Jew as well. This land is the land of their prophets.
    I’m not saying this to deprive Palestinians of their land, what’s done is done. But fair is fair; Palestinians and Jews should be left alone to be able to live in peace together. All the agonies inflicted on them did not come from the West or Israel; it came from Moslems and Arabs.
    If you like history so much, go back a bit to the prophets time where he claimed that he visited the Aqsa and flew on an animal more like the ones in Greek myths to the seventh heaven. Who declared its sacredness to Moslems by being one of the two qiblas? The fight over Palestine is not new; it’s as old as Mohhamad himself.

    Reply

  31. AyyA
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 10:17:31

    Hadji
    “Hah! I was surprised that Ayya wasn’t the one to bring up the Mesyar issue”

    One is worse than the other.

    Yes, humanitarians; and that’s why I fight the inhumane religions.

    Reply

  32. AyyA
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 10:22:45

    Geo
    “The page cannot be found”
    I can find it here in the State, this is one of the advantages of a secular society :p

    Reply

  33. Geopolitical
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 16:49:13

    In the name of God most high.

    Every religion including the christians initiated a crusade against other religions and so have the jews before them.

    Secondly did i once denounce any loyalty to Kuwait? No i did not in any of my posts, but i certainly do criticize their influence, their stance against other countries during the 80’s and as a Kuwaiti citizen i have the right to do so and as a human being I have the right to pledge loyalty to whom ever i wish. And believe me when i tell you this Shiites may love their country but they all love Iran, first of all because it is the ONLY Shiite country and the country which gave us the power and force to be reckoned with. Yes Iran wants control just like every other country which has power to have control and Iran has established control over the region. Like secularism, capitalism, communism was spread Shiite Islam wants to spread and this is the ideology of all thoughts. Again you do not know my stance of ideology with regards to the Shiite faith but I do support Iran because they are my Shiite brethren I even support Shiite bohras, alawites, and druze. we are the most oppressed sect in history and we have been genocide more then any other sect in the world, most likely with your ignorance you will mention Judaism but Judaism is the most oppressed religion. Since Sunni-Arabs all the way to the Ottomans cannot really establish a decent Islamic caliphate system without having going to war with 192038912391 countries and slaughtering them we should do so.

    The Jews have the right to live in Palestine and regard it as a home but to crush, kill, slaughter others for it is wrong be it Muslim or not. Hatred of Islam to others? Well my dear friend i welcome you to the Shiite faith were all religions are equal in our eyes and hearts unlike the sunni sect which has pretty much started killing since their beloved Omar was a caliph. Imam Ali always ruled with diplomacy over war and so did the prophet Mohammad. Palestine belongs to all religions and all faiths it is one of the oldest countries to be alive, and please if you will mention Salah al din al ayoubi i wouldn’t even like to remember this man =) He is the one who slaughtered the Fatimite Shiites in Eygpt and he would have done the same to the Jews regardless.

    Yes it is very old and Pan-Arab seculars initiated a war against Israel yet they failed 6 times against a country that a Militia/Guerrilla group managed to withstand for 34 days and drive them out of their country. A Sunni based country (Saudi Arabia) which has the largest oil reserve in the world as well cannot even hold a decent oil embargo against Israel to help the Palestinians. Sunni Arabs mean little to me since they could never really do something to help restore Islam and no one made it look bad as much as the Sunni leaders themselves. Al Aqsa is sacred to Jews Christians and Muslims and the incident of flying horse did occur =) but again you are secular that is beyond your belief.

    As for the Page cannot be found, I live in a socialist/secular country and I still cannot find it lol.

    Perhaps you are the one who should seek history and remember what socialism has done and so has secularism. Genocide, Mass murder, killings, and unstoppable riots(similar to the one France had last year due to unemployment and discrimination.)

    I would reply to Hadji but he is ignorant so i shrug him off the way I shrug sunni Hadiths about Omar and Western backed claims about the Iranian ideology lol.

    there is one thing to acknowledge about our arguments is that ideology differs. The only secular country i went to which has a very decent society and i actually promote their form of secularism is Singapore because i really saw no racial discrimination no form of hatred and all temples of belief were equally lined. Again if that was the case in the Middle East then everyone would have adopted it but once again even though they are Secular even though they have nothing to do with God or Religion the Sunni-Arabs begin to attack the Shiites. Perhaps secularism would work in Europe but in the Middle East even secularism would be a complicated issue especially because your form of dialogue about the prophet Mohammad is that way then you would have political unrest for the rest of your life lol.

    anyway good luck to you, I will check up on the response one more time and i would invite you to join a Shiite forum, you are welcome to have debates there. Just don’t invite Hadji lol discrimination against races/religions/sects are not tolerated but you can criticize.

    Wasalam alaikom.

    Reply

  34. Hadji
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 19:39:30

    Geopolitical:

    “I would reply to Hadji but he is ignorant so i shrug him off the way I shrug sunni Hadiths about Omar and Western backed claims about the Iranian ideology lol.”

    This was an interesting comment. Apparently, to Shi’ites I’m ignorant enough to burn in hell. God forbid that they attempt to share any of their knowledge, nevertheless, my salvation is none of their concern. God, in the religion of Shiasm is one who hates Nasibis/Sunnis enough that He’d want to keep them all in the dark. Well, I don’t really believe in any of that but that’s the impression I’m getting out of what you’re saying.

    “Just don’t invite Hadji lol discrimination against races/religions/sects are not tolerated but you can criticize.”

    That is fresh. You’re guilty of accusing me of something that you’re clearly doing.

    To be honest, I do see my religion to be superior to yours because I believe that it’s the true religion of God. I don’t expect any less from you. Yet, I do respect everyone and will continue to respect them unless they disrespect me first.

    I sense that you’ve debated enough Sunnis that you’re probably sick of them and that caused you to target athiests and agnostics instead.

    Anyways, I advise you to hear out those that are willing to hear you out.

    Reply

  35. Geopolitical
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 19:57:09

    I have been with Sunni scholars and have sunni friends and i have researched into Maliki, Shaf3i, Hanbali, Salafi and Wahabi sects and you people really have misconceptions about shia equally. So i have listened time and time again of your false and baseless accusations ranging from mut’a to the koran being incomplete. lol Atheists are one thing but sunnis are another. May allah guide you enshallah.

    Reply

  36. AyyA
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 21:05:38

    Geo
    Again you are making a mistake; Kuwait is not a secular state, although I wish it were. But comparing it to Iran or KSA, Kuwait is a mercy.
    And please bro; check your comment and see how much hatred and prejudice it contains towards others. And don’t be fooled by the Iranian slogan; you’ll be the first to get crushed if they ever ensue control over the area. And instead of inviting me to the Shiite forum, I wish that you’d stay away from such hate invoking sites. I know that many Iranians today would not even dream of swapping their places with you. Be thankful that your ancestors chose to migrate from such a militant and corrupt country to the land of abundance. Mahma yikoon; Kuwait om elkhair.
    I do understand your agony though for being a minority; yet the path you are taking to fight discrimination is wrong and in this case, you are no different from the extremist Wahabies, or the fundamentalist Salafi. Instead I invite you to secularism, where religion stays a matter between a person and his God, and there is mutual respect to other beliefs.
    Mankind is getting civilized with time, so lets not go backwards, this will only destroy us. Remember that Moslems one day were the exporters of knowledge and civilization, let’s build on that instead of destroying. The West isn’t so bad as others try to blindfold us about it; you are using their computers and their Net, driving their cars, using their technology to live your life. Ask yourself; did we contribute anything to develop life for mankind in centuries? At least do something to enhance that instead of wasting your energies in supporting fascism, which will have its sever impact on all humans.
    This is my advice, you don’t have to take it, but at least think about it.

    Reply

  37. Geopolitical
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 21:26:08

    First of all my ancestors worked with a Persian-Anglo company and they built the kuwaiti oil tankers of mina al ahmedi with the british so they owe me a better life. Kuwait should be thankful to my grandparents.

    I see a completely different reason for life then you do obviously and in my eyes Iran is not bad and it will never “crush” me first and foremost i have family there. My origin is strongly persian.

    Ofcourse i do admit that they are strong and that the west developed a lot of things but it seems you think Iran lives in the stone age lol Iran has gone through cloning, robotics. Recently we had a contest here do you know who the top winners were? One was Iranian and the other was Israeli i didn’t even see one arab develop a thing. Iran having one of the largest ballisitic missile programs/arms productions/robotics production/Nuclear fission research means they are going backwards? wow i never expected that from you atleast.

    Secularism is absoloutely fine when the government does not crush a minority unlike the middle east this always happens. You make the west seem innocent and to me they are not. Iran has made mistakes but tell me is there a country which did not? Did you even ask me once what form of government i would like to live under? lol

    Let’s face it sister 🙂 if we Shiites do not claim our rights then we will be crushed by either pan-arabs, by either seculars who are nationalistic and hate our persian identity, or by Sunni islamists whom consider us infidels. It is either by civil protests which will probably get us no where with defiant arab countries or by violence.

    Kuwait is lovely and i do love my country and would die for it, but Iran has a special place in my heart =) and it is the land of my fore fathers.

    Reply

  38. AyyA
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 21:54:33

    Geo
    “Iran having one of the largest ballisitic missile programs/arms productions/robotics production/Nuclear fission research”

    This is the very technology that will destroy you and your country first. Remember Kuwait is much closer to Bushihr than Tehran. Your family in Iran would only mourn you, and your deformed offspring for generations to come. WAKE UP

    Reply

  39. Geopolitical
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 22:04:05

    And the people of Bushihir are 2KM away are you implying that they won’t care for their people first? and what does nuclear fission have to do with a nuclear reactor?

    Iran has never invaded a country for 150 years now neither has Kuwait and Amer Sabah al Ahmed has strictly told the U.S not to use the Kuwaiti base to launch any attack on Iran and he has urged the GCC countries to cooperate with Iran =) Iran has also signed a treaty with the IAEA that if a spill occurs there would be world aid to counter it. What your saying simply echoes the words of Pan-Arab Kuwaiti politicians and certain American figures, I urge you not to listen to the Neocons and the Republicans all they know is how to launch wars and drill for oil. May allah guide you enshallah.

    Reply

  40. Hadji
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 22:13:23

    Geopolitical:

    “So i have listened time and time again of your false and baseless accusations ranging from mut’a to the koran being incomplete.”

    Baseless accusations? Not only are your books filled with quotes that imply there being an incomplete Qur’an, but most prominent Shia scholars of old and present agree that it has been touched by the hands of man.

    May Allah (swt) guide us both.

    On a lighter note, hard luck to you Kuwaitis for getting knocked out of the Gulf Cup early this year.

    *Is a Bahraini*

    Reply

  41. AyyA
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 22:16:15

    Geo
    One thing life had taught me is not to take things at their face value, look at the big picture, think of the future. Take yourself off of your current situation and work towards a better life for your children. And deal with the devil, if you may, to ensure that. After all; your existence on earth is finite, you are only here to build it for generations to come and thank you for it.

    Reply

  42. Geopolitical
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 22:21:45

    Yes I am here building a better future for not only my self not only my children but the future of all Shiites. Enshallah allah will grant us what we need. The security, the power, the wealth and the stabilization we have been yearning for all our lives. Today Shiasm is at it’s most powerful peak only a fool would not realize this it is time to claim power like others have done so. Our problem was that we were just too calm and waiting for the right time or just simply shunning politics away from us and sticking to religion, but this is the time to claim and install Shiite politicians even if they are secular but as long as they have respect and follow some form of Islamic guidance from the Grand Ayatollahs then I am happy. If it is a Sunni who is willing to represent Shiites as muslims or show equality to all Sects then i am happy as well.

    Reply

  43. AyyA
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 22:30:59

    Geo
    It seems to me that you are too young and naive to understand what I’m trying to convey. Nevertheless; someday you will, but I hope that it won’t be too late.

    Reply

  44. Geopolitical
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 22:44:41

    lol at too young. I hope you will soon also realize what i am trying to say to you =) Again I invite you to join a Shiite forum and discuss your ideology maybe you will convince someone. lol Good luck Wasalam 3alaikom.

    Reply

  45. Luloo
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 23:40:03

    أيا

    سلمت يداك.. وفمك ..وقلمك ..وفكرك .. وكلك
    لا تكترثي صديقتي لنبح الكلاب .. فالقافلة تسير والكلاب تنبح

    دعيهم .. لا فائدة منهم … فهم تعودا وتربوا على ثقافة الكراهية والموت والجهاد .. ولن يسمعوا أو يدركوا ما تقولون حتى لو أتيت بحجج وأدلة وبراهين نقلية وعقلية من هنا حتى مائة عام

    عشت وعاش قلمك الحر

    Reply

  46. Geopolitical
    Jan 25, 2007 @ 23:59:59

    luloo

    Reply

  47. Geopolitical
    Jan 26, 2007 @ 00:00:44

    Another ignorant person. I shall shrug you off because you misinterpit the fact that i have adopted this ideology because it is my own choice =) not the people who raised me. this is me, i read and i researched. I chose to do this, and I am sure you have been raised to believe in whatever it is you believe in.

    Here is an advice to all you people who suffer from Islamaphobia and secularists.

    Nahj al Balagha: Saying No.30
    When Imam Ali was asked about Faith in Religion, he replied that the structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad.

    Endurance is composed of four attributes: eagerness, fear, piety and anticipation (of death). so whoever is eager for Paradise will ignore temptations; whoever fears the fire of Hell will abstain from sins; whoever practices piety will easily bear the difficulties of life and whoever anticipates death will hasten towards good deeds.

    Conviction has also four aspects to guard oneself against infatuations of sin; to search for explanation of truth through knowledge; to gain lessons from instructive things and to follow the precedent of the past people, because whoever wants to guard himself against vices and sins will have to search for the true causes of infatuation and the true ways of combating them out and to find those true ways one has to search them with the help of knowledge, whoever gets fully acquainted with various branches of knowledge will take lessons from life and whoever tries to take lessons from life is actually engaged in the study of the causes of rise and fall of previous civilizations .

    Justice also has four aspects depth of understanding, profoundness of knowledge, fairness of judgment and dearness of mind; because whoever tries his best to under- stand a problem will have to study it, whoever has the practice of studying the subject he is to deal with, will develop a clear mind and will always come to correct decisions, whoever tries to achieve all this will have to develop ample patience and forbearance and whoever does this has done justice to the cause of religion and has led a life of good repute and fame.

    Jihad is divided into four branches: to persuade people to be obedient to Allah; to prohibit them from sin and vice; to struggle (in the cause of Allah) sincerely and firmly on all occasions and to detest the vicious. Whoever persuades people to obey the orders of Allah provides strength to the believers; whoever dissuades them from vices and sins humiliates the unbelievers; whoever struggles on all occasions discharges all his obligations and whoever detests the vicious only for the sake of Allah, then Allah will take revenge on his enemies and will be pleased with Him on the Day of Judgment.

    31. There are four causes of infidelity and loss of belief in Allah: hankering after whims, a passion to dispute every argument, deviation from truth; and dissension, because whoever hankers after whims does not incline towards truth; whoever keeps on disputing every argument on account of his ignorance, will always remain blind to truth, whoever deviates from truth because of ignorance, will always take good for evil and evil for good and he will always remain intoxicated with misguidance. And whoever makes a breach (with Allah and His Messenger) his path becomes difficult, his affairs will become complicated and his way to salvation will be uncertain.

    Similarly, doubt has also four aspects absurd reason- ing; fear; vacillation and hesitation; and unreasonable surrender to infidelity, because one who has accustomed himself to unreasonable and absurd discussions will never see the Light of Truth and will always live in the darkness of ignorance. One who is afraid to face facts (of life, death and the life after death) will always turn away from ultimate reality, one who allows doubts and uncertainties to vacillate him will always be under the control of Satan and one who surrenders himself to infidelity accepts damnation in both the worlds.

    By Imam Ali (AS)

    http://www.al-islam.org/masoom/sayings/saying5.html

    Reply

  48. Luloo
    Jan 26, 2007 @ 02:37:22

    عزيزتي أيا

    تعلمين لما يصفوننا بالجهل.. لأن عقليتهم الغائية .. تتصف بالأحادية وتفترض أن الحقيقة المطلقة حكرا عليها, كما أن خطابهم يصاغ بلغة قديمة هزيلة لا تتماشى وواقع عصرنا الحالي وفيه تحريض مباشر لكراهية الأخر المختلف وتكفيره والسعي بكل ما أوتوا من قوة لإلغائه… كما انه خطاب يكرس العقلية التآمرية… التي تقوم على الاعتقاد بوجود مؤامرة كبيرة تستهدف الاسلام, وهذه المؤامرة تحاك بشكل واع ومقصود بالخفاء, وتهدف هذه المؤامرة في النهاية الى القضاء على الاسلام والمسلمين. فهي بذلك تعتقد بأن العالم الكافر يتآمر على المسلمين ويريد الايقاع بهم وتفكيكهم. يتسم هذا الفكر التآمري بالعاطفية واللاعقلانية, فهم بعيدون كل البعد عن الموضوعية العقلانية, فمن سمح للأحزاب والأفراد والمؤسسات والهيئات والمساجد والمنظمات والمكتبات الاسلامية أن يكون لها مطلق الحرية في ممارسة شعائرها ومعتقداتها وتنظيماتها, هل هي الدول الغربية أم بعض “الاسلامية” التي قمعت هذه المنظمات والأحزاب حتى لجئت هذه الجماعات المتطرفة لدول الغرب “الكافر”, كما يصفونه, الذي يكفل حرية الأديان والاعتقاد. فلا يزال هذا الخطاب التآمري الهزيل يتحكم بهذا الفكر المتشدد

    يجب أن يعي الأوصوليون أن العالم لم يعد مصنفا إلى
    تصنيفين: دار الحرب ودار الإسلام, كما يصفه بعض الإسلاميين. فالتداخل الديموغرافي ووجود منظمة دولية وقانون دولي في وقتنا المعاصر, يؤكد عدم عقلانية وموضوعية وتسامح تلك الجماعات. فمن أوجه التداخل الديموغرافي اندماج العرب والمسلمين في بلاد الغرب وهل يعقل أن يخاطب المسلمون الغرب في عقر دارهم بهذه العقلية كما يحدث الآن في بريطانيا؟

    من يؤمن بحرية الفكر لا يقبل أن يكون الحوار السياسي مبني على أساس الحلال والحرام، حيث يصبح الرأي المخالف كافرا ومرتدا، وحيث الحقيقة المطلقة تكون ملكا لفئة معينة من الناس، فجميع القضايا تحتمل الخطأ والصواب، والحقيقة فيها نسبية، أما وصف الآخر بالجهل فهي صفة متجذرة وموروثة لدى هذه العقلية الدوغمائية… ولا لوم عليهم

    Reply

  49. AyyA
    Jan 26, 2007 @ 06:08:36

    Geo
    Let’s take a closer look at this long speech of your Imam:

    “So whoever is eager for Paradise will ignore temptations; whoever fears the fire of Hell will abstain from sins”
    Hell is the biggest blackmail that could be inflicted on a human being.

    “Whoever practices piety will easily bear the difficulties of life”
    Not necessarily true.

    “And whoever anticipates death will hasten towards good deeds”
    Not true, death is a natural process, and anticipating it is common logic. So there is no one who does not anticipate death.

    “Conviction has also four aspects to guard oneself against infatuations of sin. To search for explanation of truth through knowledge; to gain lessons from instructive things and to follow the precedent of the past people, because whoever wants to guard himself against vices and sins will have to search for the true causes of infatuation and the true ways of combating them out”
    I presume infatuation and sin according to religious beliefs, and in this case it can be indecisive. For example; I consider killing a soul, no matter what, a sin, religion might not consider this a sin, rather a jihad when it can provide enough excuses. Moreover; reward it.

    “And to find those true ways one has to search them with the help of knowledge, whoever gets fully acquainted with various branches of knowledge will take lessons from life and whoever tries to take lessons from life is actually engaged in the study of the causes of rise and fall of previous civilizations”
    True, and I wish you understand what that means. Because apparently knowledge of history taught you nothing.

    “Justice also has four aspects depth of understanding, profoundness of knowledge, fairness of judgment and dearness of mind; because whoever tries his best to under- stand a problem will have to study it, whoever has the practice of studying the subject he is to deal with, will develop a clear mind and will always come to correct decisions, whoever tries to achieve all this will have to develop ample patience and forbearance and whoever does this has done justice to the cause of religion and has led a life of good repute and fame”
    True, only to replace “life” instead of religion in the last sentence.

    “Jihad is divided into four branches: to persuade people to be obedient to Allah”
    Clearly none of anybody’s business to persuade any one.

    “To prohibit them from sin and vice”
    No one has the authority to do that; this is interference in people’s business.

    “To struggle (in the cause of Allah) sincerely and firmly on all occasions and to detest the vicious”
    Very much like priesthood.

    “ Whoever persuades people to obey the orders of Allah provides strength to the believers”
    False assumption and blackmail.

    “Whoever dissuades them from vices and sins humiliates the unbelievers”
    Hah? Wo oho koja mar7aba?

    “Whoever struggles on all occasions discharges all his obligations”
    Priesthood; nothing new.

    “And whoever detests the vicious only for the sake of Allah, then Allah will take revenge on his enemies and will be pleased with Him on the Day of Judgment”
    Carrot and stick method, terrorism.

    “31. There are four causes of infidelity and loss of belief in Allah: hankering after whims”
    This is natural in mankind, humans are not angels, yet there is something called brain that one can use to adjust his whims. Religion does not, and can not hanker one’s whims, only his brains can.

    “A passion to dispute every argument”
    Egocentric remark, any argument should have a debate. Abiding without a dispute would only create a herd that is meant to follow the shepherd.

    “Deviation from truth”
    What truth? Your truth is not necessarily mine.

    “And dissension”
    Disagreement is essential in a healthy debate unless one party wants to dictate.

    “Because whoever hankers after whims does not incline towards truth”
    A vague sentence, dictatorship.

    “Whoever keeps on disputing every argument on account of his ignorance, will always remain blind to truth”
    Why isn’t it your ignorance? And who gave you the authority to posses the truth? Your God? may be he has his own God, or no God. Or may be the disputer is not convinced with your logic. Why don’t you see it the other way around, that to him, he has his own truth?

    “Whoever deviates from truth because of ignorance, will always take good for evil and evil for good and he will always remain intoxicated with misguidance”
    This sentence shows one track-mindedness and arrogance.

    “And whoever makes a breach (with Allah and His Messenger) his path becomes difficult, his affairs will become complicated and his way to salvation will be uncertain”
    Again blackmailing.

    “Similarly, doubt has also four aspects absurd reason- ing; fear; vacillation and hesitation; and unreasonable surrender to infidelity, because one who has accustomed himself to unreasonable and absurd discussions will never see the Light of Truth and will always live in the darkness of ignorance”
    Clearly; this sentence is said to have total obedience, and adherance.

    “One who is afraid to face facts (of life, death and the life after death) will always turn away from ultimate reality”
    What reality and according to who?

    “One who allows doubts and uncertainties to vacillate him will always be under the control of Satan and one who surrenders himself to infidelity accepts damnation in both the worlds”
    Blackmailing.

    So to sum up this analysis; I see that your Imam did not bring anything that was not there in the Islamic preaching of ignorance and self-centeredness, as well as blackmailing and violating other’s rights, mainly to convert people into sheeple. The passage clearly is meant for people not to think and debate, and whoever asks you to do that, know that he has a hidden agenda.

    Reply

  50. AyyA
    Jan 26, 2007 @ 06:23:54

    Sweet Luloo
    Thanks dear friend for your open mindedness, thanks for your foresight. As for Geo; I have to admit that I am shocked. This is the fruit of the filth our kids are forced to gulp on daily bases in schools and husainiyas. He raised my blood pressure, I knew sectarian is rising in Kuwait after the incidents in Iraq, but I guess I was in the state of denial that I could never have imagined that such statements I would hear one day from a Kuwaiti. This same land that one day Shiites and Sunnis stood hand in hand to expel the invader, blood of the martyrs of both sects were mixed to defend this land. But I guess I underestimated the deviousness of our cruel neighbors and the damage is very much sever. Shi limhin….

    Reply

  51. dishevelled
    Jan 26, 2007 @ 08:44:04

    Geo and Hadji – Shame on you both for dissing the other because of their sect. Just a reminder, this whole sect thing came about only after the prophet died. So there is no right or wrong, believe what you want to believe, leave it between you and your God. In the end we’re all human. If that’s too general for you, then we’re all Kuwaiti. Keep it at that. Ya3ni if two educated people like yourselves can’t even respect each other’s beliefs no one should be surprised that most of the world’s terrorist acts come under the name of Islam!

    Ayya – after reading the posts and the comments, I was blown away. You go girl =)

    Reply

  52. Geopolitical
    Jan 26, 2007 @ 18:20:25

    First of all AyyA, I really would reply to your analysis but let us look at the Western scientists have said about Imam Ali (AS). Although your analysis means little because you are completely ignorant to analyze it like that lol sadly you are affected by Neo-con speeches of President G.W.Bush and his Pentagon’s analysis. So what you just said is simply worth only shrugging off.

    But here is what westerners have said about Imam Ali (AS)(I will get to the blood of martyrs in a second =))

    Edward Gibbon
    “ The zeal and virtue of Ali were never outstripped by any recent proselyte. He united the qualifications of a poet, a soldier, and a saint; his wisdom still breathes in a collection of moral and religious sayings; and every antagonist, in the combats of the tongue or of the sword, was subdued by his eloquence and valour. From the first hour of his mission to the last rites of his funeral, the apostle was never forsaken by a generous friend, whom he delighted to name his brother, his vicegerent, and the faithful Aaron of a second Moses.”

    Sir William Muir
    “ Endowed with a clear intellect, warm in affection, and confiding in friendship, he was from the boyhood devoted heart and soul to the Prophet. Simple, quiet, and unambitious, when in after days he obtained the rule of half of the Moslem world, it was rather thrust upon him than sought”

    Philip Khuri Hitti
    “ Valiant in battle, wise in counsel, eloquent in speech, true to his friends, magnanimous to his foes, he became both the paragon of Muslim nobility and chivalry (futuwah) and the Solomon of Arabic tradition, around whose name poems, proverbs, sermonettes and anecdotes innumerable have clustered.”

    There is a lot more just ask lol. I am surprised that if someone delivered the form of truth you would call it black mail and you would call it terrorism. But then again that is secularism.

    Now your comment about Kuwait. Yes people died martyrs you may say, many were from my family members not just in Kuwait but in Iraq and Iran the same money your beloved country has put in the hands of Saddam Hussain(May god curse his soul in hell enshallah) Again i have proven that over and over and i shall do so once again just for the fun of it.

    Iraq’s main financial backers were the oil-rich Persian Gulf states, most notably Saudi Arabia ($30.9 billion), Kuwait ($8.2 billion) and the United Arab Emirates ($8 billion).

    As for your beloved western governments:

    Beginning in September 1989, the Financial Times laid out the first charges that BNL, relying heavily on U.S. government-guaranteed loans, was funding Iraqi chemical and nuclear weapons work. For the next two and a half years, the Financial Times provided the only continuous newspaper reportage (over 300 articles) on the subject. Among the companies shipping militarily useful technology to Iraq under the eye of the U.S. government, according to the Financial Times, were Hewlett-Packard, Tektronix, and Matrix Churchill, through its Ohio branch

    source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq-iran_war#Financial_support

    The war was disastrous for both countries, stalling economic development and disrupting oil exports. It cost Iran an estimated 1 million casualties,and $350 billion.Iraq was left with serious debts to its former Arab backers, including US$14 billion loaned by Kuwait, a debt which contributed to Saddam’s 1990 decision to invade.

    So! Who did we fight for? at least i mean at least the leaders of Iran were present in their countries and the current president of Iran was in the war.

    The current president of Iran Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and most of his cabinet members are veterans of the Iran-Iraq war.
    source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq-iran_war#Aftermath

    Now i will show you how the people were fooled to this so called “surprise” Invasion. But first we shall look at the weapons of Kuwait before the gulf war.

    The air force complement in 1990 before the gulf war was estimated at 2,200, excluding foreign personnel. Its inventory included about eighty combat aircraft, mainly Mirage F1s from France and A-4 Skyhawks from the United States, and more than forty helicopters of French manufacture, some fitted for assault missions with antitank missiles. Ground-based air defense was structured around the United States improved Hawk (I-Hawk) missile system, tied into Saudi air defense to receive data transmitted by United States and Saudi AWACS aircraft that had been operating in the area since the start of the Iran-Iraq War.

    See: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/gulf/kuwait-af.htm

    A car would take maximum 2-3 hours to drive from the Iraqi border all the way to Kuwait city. A helicopter (usually French are quiet fast) so that would take something like 5-10 minutes you would reach your destination anywhere in Kuwait the circulation is quiet fast as well. (please check the speed of French helicopters here http://www.globalsecurity.org)

    So let us review that during the invasion what Iraq had and how they used their army tactics to attack. First of all in any case of invasion or attack you would strike the leader i.e. Sheikh Jaber. He was in Qasr dasman or whatever huge castle he was in at that point of time regardless it was an open target.

    So here is the list of Iraqi airforce during the 80’s and 90’s:

    The Iraqi Air Force (IrAF) had at least two squadrons of Sukhoi Su-22, one of Su-25K, one of Mirage F1EQ and two of MiG-23BN fighter-bombers.
    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Kuwait#The_invasion

    MiG-23BN. The MiG-23BN was the definitive fighter-bomber variant. It was otherwise the same as MiG-23B, but had the same R-29-300 engine as contemporary fighter ‘Floggers’. They were also fitted with “type 3” wings. There were other minor changes in electronics and equipment, and some changes were made during its long production run. This variant proved to be fairly popular and effective and it was extensively exported.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-22#Specifications_.28Su-17M-4.29

    Performance
    Maximum speed:

    Sea level: 1,400 km/h (870 mph)
    Altitude: 1,837 km/h (1,148 mph)
    Range:

    Combat: 1,150 km (715 mi) in hi-lo-hi attack with 2,000 kg (4,410 lb) warload
    Ferry: 2,300 km (1,430 mi)
    Service ceiling: 15,200 m (49,870 ft)
    Rate of climb: 230 m/s (45,276 ft/min)
    Wing loading: 443 kg/m² (90.77 lb/ft²)
    Thrust/weight: 0.68

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Su-25

    Performance
    Maximum speed: 975 km/h (606 mph)
    Combat radius: 375 km (235 mi)
    Ferry range: 1,950 km (1,210 mi)
    Service ceiling: 10,000 m (22,200 ft)
    Rate of climb: 58 m/s (11,400 ft/min)
    Wing loading: 584 kg/m² (119 lb/ft²)
    Thrust/weight: 0.51

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirage_F1#Specifications_.28Mirage_F1.29

    Performance
    Maximum speed: Mach 2.1 (2,573 km/h, 1,600 mph) at 11,000 m (36,000 ft)
    Combat radius: 425 km (229 nm, 265 mi)
    Ferry range: 2,150 km (1,160 nm, 1,335 mi)
    Service ceiling: 20,000 m (66,000 ft)
    Rate of climb: 215 m/s (42,300 ft/min)
    Wing loading: 450 kg/m² (91 lb/ft²)
    Thrust/weight: 0.64

    So there you have it the power of the Iraqi airforce during the Invasion of Kuwait, do you know how long it took them to take out the main objectives in Kuwait? i.e. Media, electricity etc. not more then 2 hours if not less actually they seized the country in 12 hours with elite ground troops due to 8 year long of Symmetric warfare experience with Iran thanks to 30 countries funding most notably Kuwait Saudi Arabia and the United States.

    So sheikh Jaber would have obviously theoretically never been able to flee this invasion especially with French/Soviet based jet fighters it’s almost impossible. Unless he went underground i don’t know. Therefore my conclusion to you is that He did! know and he never spoke to the people, he knew at least 3 days before they even wanted to attack and he never spoke of it. One Mi helicopter could have done the job, he either cut a deal or he ran off without telling anyone. Innocent blood shed over nothing, calling for the army to retreat, civilians taking up armed resistance and guerrilla groups and with all their money, no funding? Or is it that when he married Mutairi’s and other bedioun tribes as well as giving them passports/citizenships where were they? Why didn’t they fight? I see POW names of bediouns maybe they were running off and got caught in the way god knows. Before you start pointing the finger at me and saying Sunni/Shias fought together go resolve these issues, Kuwait is in chaos and you will soon witness bloodshed. As for the cruel neighbor the only cruel neighbor you have is Saudi Arabia and once upon a time Saddam Hussain. Then again Kuwait usually bows down or has bowed down before the two. Maybe you should learn something from a hussaniyah or Shiites, as they say in Arabic “El mot bel 3ezah sa3ada, wel 3eesha bel thela 7aram.”

    dishevelled:

    I stated my opinion I never insulted anyone’s beliefs. Keep your patriotism to yourself.

    Reply

  53. Geopolitical
    Jan 26, 2007 @ 18:42:19

    I raised your blood pressure AyyA? lol wow that is kind of weak to say in a debate but here is some advice:

    One, who adopts patience, will never be deprived of success though it may take a long time to reach him. By Imam Ali (AS)

    Reply

  54. bosale7
    Jan 26, 2007 @ 18:56:07

    مشكلة الاسلام هي الاسلام نفسه

    والشيء المضحك هو ادعاء ان ايران دولة تكنولوجية وصناعية !!
    اذن من اين اتت مصانع السيارات الفرنسية ؟
    من اين اتت الصواريخ الكورية ؟
    من اين اتت الغواصات الروسية النص عمر ؟

    اذا كانت ايران دولة صناعية وتكنولوجية لمجرد انها اتاحت الفرصة لمصانع اجنبية ان تعمل في ايران وتشغل المواطنين الايرانيين اذن الكويت افضل لان مصنع البفك يدار بايدي كويتية وينتج منتج كويتي بحت !!
    سلام على العقل اذا توفر

    Reply

  55. Geopolitical
    Jan 26, 2007 @ 19:19:16

    lol 3al aqal te9na3 sawa2an tajmee3 aw la2.

    Look at Japan they were doing the exact same thing after world war 2 and then they began to create their own. Does kuwait even put things together? I do not think so. Does kuwait build anything? I do not think so. I’d rather buy parts and put them together or even copy them then buy them.

    Salam

    Reply

  56. Geopolitical
    Jan 26, 2007 @ 19:39:53

    Sorry for the double post.

    Reply

  57. Luloo
    Jan 26, 2007 @ 20:05:34

    انا أقول كل واحد لازم ينام على الجنب اللي يريحة … اللي يحب المذهب الوهابي الارهابي يهاجر للسعودية عليه بالعافية .. واللي يحب إيران أكثر من الكويت ليش ما يروح يعيش فيها مو أحسن … ونفتك من الطائفية اللي تحرقنا وتأكل الأخضر واليابس

    أو ليش ما تروحون العراق وتنضمون للطائفتين المتطرفتين … وتتصارعون هناك وتصفون حساباتكم مع بعض

    بس فكونا … تعبنا منكم …نبي نعيش ونربي عيالنا بعيد عنكم

    ما نبي طائفية لا سنية ولا شيعية … علمانية دستورية وبس … واللي ما يبي يشرب من البحر

    Reply

  58. Geopolitical
    Jan 26, 2007 @ 20:21:21

    Luloo, el 3elmaniyah matat min ziman lol. Today it is the war between Shiasm-Wahabism and there is only one winner. Normal sunnis and seculars are just stranded in the middle the only outcome of who wins is your fate. Your days are over since the 90’s.

    You know I should thank the west, I really should. I thank them for removing Saddam Hussain the only balance and only regime that was actually countering our influence now that he is gone, it is time for the Shiites to rein supreme.

    As for bosale7 tefathal 7abeebi:

    Science in Iran, as the country itself, has a long history. Iranians contributed significantly to the current understanding of astronomy, nature, medicine, mathematics, and philosophy. To mention just a few, Persians first discovered Algebra, invented the wind mill and found medical uses of alcohol.

    In present times, scientists in Iran are trying to revive the golden age of Persian science. Iran has increased its publication output nearly tenfold from 1996 through 2004, and has been ranked first in terms of output growth rate followed by China.[58]

    Theoretical and computational sciences are rapidly developing in Iran. Theoretical physicists and chemists are regularly publishing in high impact factor journals. Despite the limitations in funds, facilities, and international collaborations, Iranian scientists remain highly productive in several experimental fields as pharmacology, pharmaceutical chemistry, organic chemistry, and polymer chemistry. Iranian scientists are also helping construct the Compact Muon Solenoid, a detector for CERN’s Large Hadron Collider due to come online in 2007. Iranian Biophysicists (especially molecular biophysics) have gained international reputation since the 1990s. High field NMR facilities, as well as Microcalorimetry, Circular dichroism, and instruments for single protein channel studies have been provided in Iran during recent decades. Tissue engineering and research on biomaterials have just started to emerge in biophysics departments. In late 2006, Iranian scientists cloned successfully a sheep, by somatic cell nuclear transfer, at the Rouyan research centre in Isfahan.

    So AyyA I would contribute my work to Kuwait, sadly the people are too busy giving out their numbers to girls, or gays rein supreme because of their family names or affiliations with high government officials, or rich men stealing the country’s wealth, they are too busy to contribute to science. lol Iran is happy to accept it. God damn it even the United States is happy to accept a good brain, any country would, except the Arab countries lol. many of which are “secular.”

    Reply

  59. Geopolitical
    Jan 26, 2007 @ 20:22:07

    the source for that remark about Science in Iran is found here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran#Scientific_progress

    Reply

  60. AyyA
    Jan 26, 2007 @ 21:19:09

    Geo
    So, when the West praises us, they are good and we take their word for it as a proof? In this case if a prominent writer praised Sadam Hussain, then he is worthy of glorification despite the damage and destruction that he’s done. What kind of logic is this?
    Yes, there were a lot of Islam apologists that praised Ali, as were others who criticized him, and Dante was one of those

    “See how mangled is Mohammed! / Ahead of me proceeds Alì, in tears, / his face split open from his chin to forelock. / ‘And all the others whom you see / sowed scandal and schism while they lived, / and that is why they here are hacked asunder” Dante, the Divine Comedy, Inferno XXVIII

    “I am surprised that if someone delivered the form of truth you would call it black mail and you would call it terrorism”
    Well this is my opinion and again, who’s truth?

    “many were from my family members not just in Kuwait but in Iraq and Iran the same money your beloved country”
    My beloved country? I thought you were a Kuwaiti.

    And yes, I do admit that the royal family had failed us in foreign affairs, and we all paid a dear price, but that is no excuse to support a foreign country over your own. Or else; you’d see all the Americans who are anti Bush policy in the Middle East show patriotism as you do to US enemies.
    And as Luloo mentioned, if you are so disgusted and ashamed of your country, then go back to where you belong, and see how Mullas will treat you. Leave us live our lives in peace.

    Well, your disloyalty to the country that fed you was the reason behind my shock and high blood pressure. But I do have patience as you can see with my insistence to reply to your comments, although many would just ignore you. But mind you; I do not do that for your sake or to try to convince you. I do that to expose reality to others, so they can see it for themselves and judge the pathetic situation that we are in today.

    Reply

  61. AyyA
    Jan 26, 2007 @ 21:29:26

    Bosale7 & Luloo
    Sa7 ilsankom

    Reply

  62. AyyA
    Jan 26, 2007 @ 21:33:58

    Disshevelled
    Sorry dear, in this chaos I missed your comment, and it is enough for me, and gives me great honor if I did convince you and other silent readers. After all these posts are meant for open-minded individuals like you, thanks sweetie.

    Reply

  63. kila_ma6goog
    Jan 26, 2007 @ 22:28:36

    أحيانا أفكر بحال المسلمين و اقول يمكن الاسلام فعلا يجعل تفكير الشخص عدواني و احادي و ينفي الآخر كما ذكرتي

    لكن لمن أقرأ جملة من هالنوع

    The only way England has to save its skin is to teach those barbarians how to live within the secular society and respect its laws. And if they want to apply the shareea, let them go back to their caves and tents where they belong.

    مع احترامي لك يا آيا ماني شايف فرق كبير بينج و بين الملا عمر أو الشيخ اسامة بن لادن

    بربريين و يرجعون الى خيامهم و كهوفهم؟

    كلام غريب و لا يوحي بالحيادية و موضوعية

    أوكي انا راضي اكون متخلف و السبب هو اسلامي, لكن ما الذي يبرر تخلفكم؟ و اسلوبكم الهجومي اللي ما فيه ذرة مخ؟

    مو انتوا المتحضرين و المثقفين؟

    أكرر انني رأيت اسلام ارهابي و رأيت حولي فوجدت ليبرالية أكثر ارهابا

    ماكو فرق

    أكرر احترامي للجميع

    دمتي:)

    Reply

  64. AyyA
    Jan 26, 2007 @ 23:16:45

    KM
    With all due respect to your intelligence and your indiscriminative views.
    What do you call someone who is trying to apply jungle laws in a modern society? A society that went through years of struggle to rid itself from Church control. Nothings less than barbarians.

    And mind you; I’m not mocking a race or a personal belief, but when that personal belief is forced on others, then it brought it to itself to be called names.
    And if you gather all the insults that the liberals inflicted on Islamists, they won’t count to the insults of Friday mosque preachers in one Islamic state, so please don’t make that comparison.

    Reply

  65. Geopolitical
    Jan 26, 2007 @ 23:17:12

    AyyA, it seems like you really read the negative views of Islam. That is one point i would like to make.

    Secondly, You never really responded to the Amir not failing you but actually fleeing you. What price did you pay? Please tell me lol.

    That was a non-biased view of Imam Ali (AS) there is peace when two opponents reach a deal and with secularists it’s my way or the high way. I have said before that I love my country however I criticize it greatly. I never said change the government or it’s system, I never said install an Islamic government in Kuwait. Hence if you really have some intellect please notice that my posts are geopolitical and regional i do not focus on simply Kuwait.

    If you really love Kuwait, then you should play a political role to satisfy all your giant neighbors including the massive American carriers that are present. Iran is the great power emerging and is going to be a very powerful regional player. Look at Lebanon, look at Iraq, look at Syria without Iran no country can do much to even restore some form of peace. If you will say i focus on Kuwait, sorry that won’t happen either the big boys are happy or you will be upset from regional conflicts spilling into Kuwait. Be it secular, be it Islamic or whatever.

    Patriotic to whom? To the same government to the same people whom once called Saddam al qa3qa3 to the same ones who called him “qatel al majoos” for gods sake Kuwaitis never forgot the Iraqi invasion yet they label all Iraqis equally. How ironic we resisted the Iraqi invasion yet the Kuwaiti government are the same ones whom funded this man to kill our Iranian brethren and our Iraqi shia brethren. Did i see any protests in Kuwait? Anyone calling for some form of calm? Kuwaiti intelligence were breaking down doors, houses, raiding Shiites who supported Iran. Do i see any apologies? some were released after 1991, before that they claimed to have put bombs and it was all Mukhabarat Baathists agents from Iraq implementing a plot for the Kuwaiti government to crush any Shiite stronghold. I have even seen secular Kuwaitis saying that funding Saddam during the Iraq war was to contain any Iranian influence, so funding a murderer is to contain influence? Mind you this is from high officials and so called “Nabeeha 5” supporters. Tell me where are the apologies? where is a shred of evidence that anyone apologized? How many Shiite cabinet members are there in Kuwait 4? How many Sunnis? we are 35% and we have 4 members tell me how is that fair? There is no democracy in Kuwait, why should i support it? Your message clearly states that i should have loyalty to my country only, fair enough, give me a reason to be loyal, If i have degrees and education from the most powerful universities i still wouldn’t get a good job as a Sunni in Kuwait. Where are all you secularist preachers? why are you not protesting or doing anything lol. At least the Mullahs carry the name Shiite and they are Grand ayatollahs whom can release religious edicts calling upon us to aide them, what can secularists do? Can you even restore democracy in Kuwait and contain any form of sectarian hatred? No you cannot.

    Jihad you say, when is the last time a Mullah called upon Jihad, believe you me a Mullah never goes to war unless the war comes to him.

    Although Kuwait has the most democratic society in the region and I must admit that we preach freely in our beliefs but there is a certain limit for us. If we do not side with the government they will reprive us from rights and maybe deport us in the sea lol and if we support the Pan-Arabs we are Persian invaders, if we support the Sunni Islamists we are the Shiite Rawafith. So whom will represent us? Yes Iran will, They are Shiite and we are Shiite, we will preach freely, We will have some form of backing and support and if anyone does not recognize us the Iranians will interfere. So as long as the Kuwaiti parties do not represent us and the Shiite political parties turn with the other parties even though they know we will not get enough power, who will fill this void for us? No one but Iran. Not secularists, Not Sunnis, not communists, not anyone else. I as a Shiite want to be recognized as a Shiite Muslim and my status should be equal to all others.

    What disloyalty? What country that fed me? Did i blow something up? Did i attack or take up arms? I simply state an opinion a thought which i am entitled to believe in not only as a Kuwaiti but as a human being. And the country that fed my my grandfather worked for it, my dad worked for it, I went to no public school and payed my way through university as well as school. No government money sorry =) My parents worked got the salary serving the country and that’s the way it goes.

    If you wish to ignore me then do so it will mean little to me, it’s ok I will still sleep at night =) I still do not see any reality with what you are saying, a small bubble of secularism which you wish to live in and something what will really not happen. Not in at least 50-100 years.

    Reply

  66. soud13
    Jan 27, 2007 @ 01:49:22

    ayya

    كلام جميل وموزون لكن دائما ما تخاف طيور الظلام من النور

    لانريد دين قطع الأيادى والارجل وذلك بسبب أن شخصا أخطأ

    أين أوصلنا الدين ؟ هل تقدمت مجتمعاتنا عن غيرنا ؟

    لا يوجد مجرد صراعات وقتل ودماء وتخلف

    الأسلام دين غير عادل وظالم

    Reply

  67. bosale7
    Jan 27, 2007 @ 02:38:19

    الاخ جيو بوليتاكل

    كلامك نفس كلام المصاروة المساكين لما واحد منهم عايش برة مصر لمدة ثلاثين سنة واخذ جائزة عالمية …ينطون من الفرحة ويبتدون يتلصقون فيه ويقولون هذا مصري …حتى دودي الفايد بالنسبة لهم بطل …انت حالك من حالهم ….تتكلم عن الدولة الشيعية لكن تاتي بنماذج ايرانية ..ما قلتلنا هالعلماء وين درسو ووين اشتغلو ومن وين حصلو الاعتراف العالمي ؟؟ اتحداك انهم عايشين بايران او يشتغلون بايران ….لا تعتقد انك لمجرد انك متعصب او تحب مذهب انه باجي الناس مو مطلعين او ما يفهمون …ترى ايران قريبة حذفة عصا وتكلف 5 دنانير بطيران الجزيرة …ما شفنا ولا سمعنا عن اللي تقوله لانك تقص وتلزق على كيفك …..تمدح دولة شي طيب لكن لا تلصق فيها ناس هاجرو منها وما ارتاحو لنظامها وتصادر تعبهم علشان تدعي انه نظامك ناجح
    ارجع واقولك :
    سلام على العقل ان وجد
    تحياتي

    Reply

  68. Geopolitical
    Jan 27, 2007 @ 03:02:21

    bosale7,

    I have provided sources, adela 3ala el kalam ely gelta, raje3 el kalam o shofa.

    el 3olama2 dersaw fel Najaf (Madeena shee3iya fel 3raq) aw fe Qom ham madena shee3iya o etha el 3olama2 ohma dersaw fel gharb, fa 3ado thaki a7san min 9adeeq thaki, w Iran tesda5m el 3ado 3ashan tsfeed lakin dowal el 3arabiya tesda5m el 3ado o ma ta5eth elah el khasart. lol

    ana mo met3a9eb if i was, i wouldn’t be here discussing this with you and i listen to all opinions. I am originally Iranian and i never forgot my identity and i never will. I am kuwaiti of Iranian origin wana ma nesait eni kuwaiti lol, meshkelatkom yal 3elmaniya enah ely thud tafkeerkom sawaito jihadi o mo fahim lol.

    fe nas hajero min el faqr fe nas hajero min el seyasa fe nas hajero mojarad fiker, o hatha kel mokan e9eer ya thaki

    Reply

  69. Geopolitical
    Jan 27, 2007 @ 03:29:15

    AyyA, I again would like to invite you to the forum as i did before, if it is too much for you, perhaps you would like to debate Live chat i.e. Msn, yahoo or any other chat client. I will also give you my email and you can add me if you would like to debate more lol. Dunno if you can handle that much though, I’m affraid your blood pressure might shoot sky high.

    Reply

  70. AyyA
    Jan 27, 2007 @ 04:35:58

    Geo
    Thanks, but no thanks. And don’t laugh so much, because at the end of the day the laugh will be on you. What you are doing is really dangerous man. Sectarianism is Iran’s ultimate goal, it’s filthy hands in Iraq and Lebanon is killing thousands per day. Those bombs do not differentiate between Shiite and Sunni’s or even Christians for that matter. Iran wants to start civil war in Iraq, Lebanon, Kuwait, Bahrain as well as Saudi Arabia. You are its ammunition and we’ll all be its ashes; Shiite as well as Sunni.
    As I said; I do understand your agony as a minority; yet, siding with the outsider will only break your neck. There are more civilized ways to deal with the situation inside, but if everyone wants to side with his own party and fight the other, none of us will survive. Learn from the quote you submitted for your Imam.
    And please, do not mix between secularism and pro US foreign policy. Secularism is not a party, it’s an ideology that believes in mankind and it’s right to have a decent life, google that out. As we take our technology from the west, we also take our ideology that was based on man’s successive alteration for more human freedom and prosperity. Not the rigid religious ideology that differentiates between people. And why did you assume that I approve of GW Bush’s foreign policy? Being a secular does not mean being a sheep. On the contrary; being a secular means that you are free to have your own ideology, belief, religion, policy, whatever. It also means that you do not have the right to dominate others, nor others dominate you, the only solution for the minorities not to be deprived of their rights is secularism.

    Reply

  71. Geopolitical
    Jan 27, 2007 @ 05:01:14

    Again turning down any debate coming from a Pro-Iranian. Perhaps you are weak lol I do not know or perhaps emotional it seems like my posts turn up your blood pressure and you take things personally.

    If civil war erupts we will all be dragged into it including Iran, those bombs which blow come from CIA backed Wahabi militants and Baathists. The same ones whom support your secular ideology. Siding with an outsider? lol what outsider i have relatives in Iran and they are my blood. I come from an area which revolted against the British occupation of Loristan and my ancestors kicked them out. In Iraq the 1920 revolutionary Shiites kicked out the British. we are the resistance. The only mistake made during those days was that the Shiites came under one Islamic/Arab banner and sided with Sunnis/Secularists/Communists whom later on betrayed them while the British occupation installed high military/political positions to a minority which cut a deal with them and left 3,000 Shiites to die.

    When i refer to you supporting the stance of Bush’s foreign policy it is because you echo his words, it seems you my young secular friend are affected by U.S foreign policy without even knowing it.

    Enshallah I will learn from my Imam as i do so daily, when i said Civil war, it is something and a course which is heading our way who will change it?

    Being secular means affiliation with the West do not forget the ideology started off there. It means you are bringing forth an ideology adopted from the West therefore you to are siding with an outsider my friend.

    Secularism has dominated time and time again, it would love to dominate and in fact eradicate Islamic power. do you deny this? or should i begin to post facts?

    Laugh? We have been crying for 1,400 years until recently when we have found the true power we have been earning for. Everyone had their chance it is time for ours. Believe what you want, Again i have never said I would like an Islamic government in Kuwait, You want to be secular? Be secular then, You want to be sunni be one then. But remember Shiites will always begin to have high posts equal to everyone else it is only because we are powerful in our faith that they begin to launch attacks on us, be it secularists, communists, Sunni extremists.

    I not only side with Iran, but i side with Hezbollah, SCIRI, Mahdi army party, Amal group, the Ayatollahs of Najaf in Iraq, the Ayatollahs of qom, the Ayatollahs and school of thought in lebanon, Algeria, Morocco (once upon a time the first Shiite state,whom Shiites have been forced into occulation for over 1000 years now), Eygpt (Once a shiite state, eradicated by Salah al din), Hezbollah’s performance has given us a great plus in the region allowing mass conversion in Egypt, Sudan, Pakistan and India and even those in the west as well as the Persian Gulf. Do not change governments or over throw others unless you have a very reliable reason due to them reprieving you from rights, but make sure whatever government has power must represent us. To Shiites there is no outsider or insider, there is no ethnicity there is no male or female, there is the path of the Prophet and his family whom we as human beings choose to follow. Be it a secular government, an Islamic one, or even a communist one, they must recognize us as a part of society. This is my ideology young lady. What better country or government is willing to do so? Why don’t you face it, the fact is if Iran was not there, we wouldn’t even exist or we would be butchered.

    Wasalam Alaikom.

    Reply

  72. Geopolitical
    Jan 27, 2007 @ 05:04:17

    P.S. please read up on the system of Wilayat al Faqeh (Guardian of the Jurist) which currently runs Iran. Maybe you will learn something.

    Reply

  73. AyyA
    Jan 27, 2007 @ 09:56:47

    Geo
    Why is it always them that are wrong? Why can’t it be us? Did you ever ask yourself this question? Apparently not. Your bosses dictated words in your month, and blindfolded your eyes. This is the catastrophe of Moslems today. It seems to me that it’s the beginning of a great fall where all of you Shiite and Sunni’s kill each other and save humanity from Islam and it’s curse for whoever gets to survive, once and forever.

    Reply

  74. AyyA
    Jan 27, 2007 @ 10:08:55

    Ah and by the way, is this the version of Islam that you want to spread?

    And do you see any CIA work here?

    Reply

  75. bosale7
    Jan 27, 2007 @ 12:32:07

    الاخ جيو
    كلاكيت ثالث مرة

    انت تاكد كلامي انك تلصق انجازات ناس مالها منكم الا الجنسية علشان تشير الى نجاح الدولة الدينية
    وعلى قولتك يا ذكي دام العلماء يهاجرون في كل ومن كل دولة بالعالم ليش عيل شاير لهم على انهم انجازات مع انه مو بس العلماء هاجرو من عندكم الا اغلب الشعب …والدليل اقعد على واجهة البحر وشوف اللي يايين سباحة !! لو الدولة حقت اهدافها وفعلا كانت دولة توجهها ديني جان الناس هاجرت لها مو منها وجان حضرتك كنت قاعد هناك تناقشنا وانت تشرب شاي بالشيخانة !!

    والعلماء اللي تقول عنهم اللي تفوقو بالاحياء والروبوتيكس تخرجو من قم والنجف !!!؟؟؟

    انت كنت صاحي يوم كتبت هالمعلومة !!

    عموما انا احب واستانس اني اتناقش مع شخص توجهه معلن ومستعد يكشف حقيقة انضمامه لتوجه او حزب ما …فما عندي مشكلة اني اناقشك لكن حضرتك يوم ما قدرت تفند اسالتي قمت وشملتني مع الكل وقلت انتو وانتو !! …يا اخي كلمني انا ..ناقشني انا ….ردي علي انا 🙂

    الله يهنيك بمعتقداتك …لكن لا تفتكر انه الناس نايمة على ودانها او مو عارفة شنو اللي تمدح فيه ….

    افتخر باصولك …مو عيب …. شير لانجازاتهم ان وجدت …مو عيب
    لكن كل العيب انك تلصق فيهم نتاج عقليات ناس انفصلت عنهم …او انك تدعي نجاح تجربة بالاستدلال على نتائج حقبة سابقة لتجربتك ….

    وسؤال لو سمحت

    دام هالتكنولوجيا بايران واصلة لهالمرحلة من التطور وانت وايد متعلق فيها ومفتخر …ليش ما تاخذ وكالتهم بالكويت وتراوينا هالانجازات لعل وعسى نرجع لعقلنا …اذا كنا تركناه بالاصل 🙂

    دلع نفسك ترى الحياة قصيرة
    تحياتي

    Reply

  76. kila_ma6goog
    Jan 27, 2007 @ 13:41:18

    العزيزة آيا

    انا اعلق هني على الاسلوب و طريقة صياغة الجمل اللي واضح فيها تغلب العواطف و الشجون على الموضوعية

    طريقة التعليقات الشمولية لا تنفع عند الكلام عن دين أو معتقد أو فئة كبيرة من الناس و انتي ادرى بهالشي

    و من الأفضل و الأكثر موضوعية ان الواحد اذا يبي ينتقد الاسلام يبحث في القرءان و ينتقد فكر و اسلوب و تعليمات القرءان كونه الكتاب الوحيد اللي يتفق عليه جميع المسلمين

    أما انك تعايرين الاسلام بفعل فلان أو كلام فلنتان فهذا غير مجدي و لا يعمم على الجميع

    و لو اني ما احب هالنوع من النقاشات و الحوارات اللانهائية الا أن الغرب بشكل عام فيه ممارسات و أفكار و تاريخ لا يقل بربرية عن جماعة ملا عمر

    يعني عندنا و عند الجميع خير و سلسلة المعايرة لن تنتهي

    لذلك أكرر النصيحة بأن يكون انتقاد الاسلام في القرءان كونه الكتاب الوحيد الغير مختلف عليه , اما افعال مقتدى و كلام القرضاوي فهذا لا يعتبر حجة على الاسلام

    شكرا لك و الى الأمام:)

    Reply

  77. bosale7
    Jan 27, 2007 @ 14:00:50

    العزيزة ايا ..
    اشكرج على سعة صدرج وحوارج المدلل بالحجج …لكن لي ملاحظة ارجو قبولها
    لا تشمليني بالشكر مع غيري من المعلقين لاني ما اتبعت نفس اسلوبهم الجارح بالتعليق

    شكرا

    Reply

  78. Geopolitical
    Jan 27, 2007 @ 18:00:26

    ayyA,

    you proved to me that you are completely ignorant you gave me one video of a Wahabi influenced terrorist and the other of Ayatollah Hakim during Ashoura hitting himself and look at the title lol obviously uploaded by an extremist.

    You know that my family have over 4 ideologies? Communists/Socialists/Seculars/Islamists/Moderates/
    yes and they were active in parties during those days in Iran. I simply chose a completely different path (The islamists are less then the rest)

    As for me not “seeing” the CIA, how many times do i have to slap you with facts? Didn’t i tell you that the Taliban/Al-qaeda were once funded by the United States and many other governments to counter USSR influence in Afghanistan, Don’t you read what other people say? There are facts Search for the name of Zbigniew Brzezinski one of the National security advisors to Jimmy carter in 1975.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Brzezinski#Afghanistan

    http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/brz.htm

    Zbigniew Brzezinski:
    How Jimmy Carter and I Started the Mujahideen http://www.counterpunch.org/brzezinski.html

    Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn’t believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don’t regret anything today?

    Brzezinski: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter: We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

    Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic [integrisme], having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

    Brzezinski: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

    Are you ignorant? Do you think i pick up an ideology because someone FED it to me? or someone put it in my head? I was once more secular then you ever will be. I READ maybe it’s something you should too, rather then watching extremist videos uploaded by some idiot not even explaining, i mean i thought you were intelligent, here you have one guy hitting himself which is a ritual (not compolsary) in his faith and the other blowing himself up and killing civilians how can you even compare two different ideologies. ayatollah al Hakim died for his country he was killed by the same group which you posted the video of blowing himself up. May allah guide you enshallah to the right path.

    Here my ideology, Attack us and you will get people like this on your border:


    and if you do not understand Farsi, i will be happy to translate.

    and listen to this speech this is exactly what i say to the Secular/U.S imperialists. it is translated 🙂


    Contributed to AhmediNejad.

    bosale7,

    I told you that the Scholars (many of them who studied economics, business, in the Hawza) o laish 3ala balek el 7oza bas deen o khalas? lol.

    O ana thekartkelk enah wayed min ely fe iran dersaw bara bel kh9oo9, Germany, Russia, England, even America, china, japan etc. o laish la2? getlek lo 3adewi thaki ana ra7 asta5dema a7san min 9adeeqi el ghabi. enta kent 9a7i lama ana getlek hal ma3looma aw ma garait-ha?

    menu enfe9al? lol Iran kan 3endaha 8 sneen 7arb, e7t9ar, el nas eb teg3ad ya3ne? akeed fe nas betyoo3 o etroo7 o iran 70 million sha3bha mo 700,000 🙂 ghair hatha 3endik nas mo3artheen lel 7ekoma, 3endik nas 3elmanyeen mo mest3deen ye3eshon fe hal be2a, methel ba3th min ahali, ohma 3elmanyeen ra7aw Germany lana ma yet7amloon. hatha shay ohma 7ur fee, mo kelman 6ala3 min el yoo3 ya khoy bo sale7.

    Wetha fe3lan Iran ta36ni a9eer wakeel ma agol la2 mest3ed akon wakeel, lakin aghlab wikala2 el kuwait wel electronics and the robotics is from U.S/Western allies and they are more developed then Iran in this field o hatha el 7ag. 3endi dawla mest3da ta36eni shay a7san laish ashtri min ely tawa beda ye9na3(iran) ? wenta ya 7abeebi ma fahamt qazdi, ana lama agolek Iran 3endaha technology shoof el throof ely ehya marat feha, ana khalait Iran role model, methal, kelman 7arab-ha kelman 7a6 3alaiha e7t9ar laken e9madat o met6awra akthar min kel dowal el 3arabiya o tantej min nafis-ha, ya3ne look at eygpt Abdel nasser used to make weapons hossni mobarak is making washing machines out of these weapon factories. Ifham el ma3loma ya 7elo.
    دلع نفسك ترى الحياة قصيرة
    hal kalam mo nafe3 ley ana =)

    Wasalam 3alaikom.

    Reply

  79. AyyA
    Jan 27, 2007 @ 18:17:14

    KM
    Thanks bro for your valuable advise, I do hold a lot of respect to your views and I believe that you know that, yet let me explain my view.
    There is an old Arabian axiom that goes like” elba3ra tadol 3ala elba3eer” correct me if I’m wrong, but in any case it means that the traces of a camel leads to the camel. And looking at the situation of the Islamic states today, and its leaders; Bin Laden, Qardani, Mugtada, Mula Omar, Nasrulla, and all the bunch of others who have their dedicated followers, what do we see? A vast number of different ideologies, some disagree with what others believe, although they all lie under the Islam umbrella. Now who is right and who is wrong? Who is directing his followers to the path of correct? And of course, if four people answer this question, you’d find four different answers. Because at the end of the day; each of those leaders are representing his own belief, and according to others, not the belief indicted in Quran. Now what does Quran say? If you ask those leaders, they will all present you verses of Quran that support their stand. Now if one opinion contradicts with the other, how can you find verses of Quran that approve both? Ah; you’d say it’s the interpretation. Then the one million dollar question is why should a divine book contain dogmas liable of such diverse interpretation? The word of God should be a canon, incapable of human intervention. Or otherwise; what is the difference between It and the laws of man?
    Let me give you an example; now Shiite believe that Ali should have been the successor of the prophet, and that this was indirectly mentioned in Quran. Now does that make any sense? If God wanted Ali to be the successor, then why didn’t He mention his name WA BIL BUN6 EL3AREETH, and in this case no two Moslems would have disagreed. It’s not as if God shied away in mentioning names in Quran, much trivial situations had mentioned names, one of which was his foster son’s name Zaid. And do you think that the prophet’s marriage to his son’s ex-wife was more important to the future of Islam than what could have untitled all Moslems?
    Now I did not bring that example to prove that Ali was not the rightful successor or he was, the point I’m trying to make is that Quran is not clear, and something that is so vague cannot be the word of God. And because of it’s vagueness we are paying dealy today and I do not see any reconciliation.
    As for me being emotional; in this post I was not merely offering a point of view, I was screaming. The killing of the innocent in Iraq, Lebanon, the boiling waters under sectarianism in Palestine, Kuwait, Bahrain and Egypt does not leave room for any patience. But nevertheless; I will take your advice and try to hold my temper, thanks.

    Bosale7
    Aye aye sir 😀

    Reply

  80. Geopolitical
    Jan 27, 2007 @ 18:40:27

    Ayya, wow i didn’t know how you interpit the Koran that way but obviously as i have said before you are ignorant and never really responded to my post. I think you are just lazy and want the message out and clear, why did god create us? We have a brain so go use it. you want everything on a silver platter? on the plate? what kind of human being are you lol. If things were that simple why and who would be rewarded at the day of judgement, oh i forgot perhaps in your case we would all be dust, or did you actually believer we were once apes? If that is what you believe then my grandfather was human thank you, maybe yours was a monkey i am not sure.

    the killing in Iraq are those of my Shiite brethren, we are the ones dying due to bombs and bullets all funded by secular governments and states do you know why? Because they fear no god 🙂

    I really dislike making this personal, but what can i say? A young emotional girl, really i thought you are intellectual it seems you are just another secular scared from religion, scared of belief and want to roam to do as you wish. lol

    Salam alaikom.

    Reply

  81. kila_ma6goog
    Jan 27, 2007 @ 21:32:03

    السلام عليكم

    العزيزة آيا

    ذكرتي في موضوعك الأصلي
    you would never have a definite answer, because it is left to man to decide.

    و صراحة أنا اتفق مع هذا الرأي , الآيات الحربية في القرءان عديدة و متنوعة الا ان معظمها و أركز على كلمة معظمها تلحق كلمات القتال بكلمة تدل على وجوب هذا القتال كردة فعل و العفو أفضل

    نقاش الأديان و المعتقدات ممتع و لا ينتهي لأنه في النهاية سنصل الى نقطة اللغز و هي هل هناك دليل مادي واضح و قاطع على وجوج اله ؟ و هل هذا الاله هو الله؟ و هل الله المسلمين هو نفسه الأب لعيسى و يهوه لليهود من ابراهيم الى موسى عليهم السلام؟

    عموما هذا نقاش متروس نظريات و حلو نتبادل الأفكار فيه لكن من الصعب علينا الحكم فيه لذلك فأنا شخصيا سبب تركيز القرءان على بعض الأمور كالكلام بوقار في حضرة النبي و بعض التعليمات لنساء النبي و عدم ذكره لبعض الامور الأخرى كقضية الخلافة و غيرها

    لكن نكرر انها ليست حجة على الاسلام و الله ليش ما قال القرءان منو خليفة و منو بيذبح منو و كم سعر البونتيك بعد الفين سنة؟ لول سوري بس حبيت الطف الجو

    موضوعنا الأساسي هو العنف و العدائية الواضحة في قادة المجتمع الاسلامي اليوم و انتي ذكرتي البعض منهم, لكن من الخطأ و عدم الحيادية عدم النظر الى الأسباب و تجاهل الآخرين

    اليهود الاسرائيليين و تعاملهم مع الفلسطينيين من خمسين سنة ما فيه عنف؟

    الامريكان و الانجليز و الكثير الكثير من الدول الاستعمارية ما كانت تستخدم العنف و الكراهية و اهانة الانسان لمصالحها؟

    حتى اليابانيين اللي ما كانوا اتباع ديانة سماوية فلهم تاريخ دموي مشرف جدا في الصين و امريكا

    و روسيا الشيوعية الاشتراكية الماركسية أيضا لها نصيب جميل جدا من العنف و الارهاب

    الزبدة اللي ابي اوصلها ان الاسلام كدين نعم يذكر العنف لكنه ليس سببا له

    كل الأديان و المعتقدات لها فترات تتسم بالعنف و الحروب و الأسباب في مجملها سياسية تاريخية اقتصادية ما لها أي علاقة بالدين

    و مثال واضح على ذلك هو انتشار العمليات الاستشهادية أو الانتحارية بعد الانتفاضة الفلسطينية و خصوصا بعد قتل الطفل محمد الدرة , و من يومها صارت هبة العمليات الانتحارية متتالية و منتشرة الاستخدام من المقاتلين المسلمين

    اذا كان اساس او مصدر فكرة العملية الانتحارية اسلامي اذا اين كانت هذه العمليات بالألف سنة اللس طافت؟

    و هل الكمكازي مسلمين؟

    المجرم مجرم و الثائر ثائر و الفنان فنان و المتحضر متحضر و المثقف مثقف و التعالم عالم و الفوضوي فوضي بعيدا عن الدين و العرق

    الدين ماله علاقة بشخصية الانسان

    انا حمدالله ختمت القرءان ثلاث مرات هالسنة و ما اشوف اني تحولت الى ارهابي أو عدائي

    و أكرر معظم الدماء و العنف اسبابها سياسية تاريخية اقتصادية و ليس لها علاقة بالدين , لكن الديانة أسهل طريقة لتصنيف البشر

    و الشكر

    Reply

  82. mosan
    Jan 28, 2007 @ 00:12:49

    mashalla my dear 81 comments & god knows how many hits… I’m glad that I’m the one who set the pase…

    keep up the good work …. rawel peoples emotions …we arabs take everything personaly..

    cheerz

    well done

    you have to have a cause

    yalla one more like that please

    see how one gets exposed to issues when they are abroad not like the rott we are in here

    Reply

  83. Geopolitical
    Jan 28, 2007 @ 00:56:49

    Mosan, lol indeed Arabs do take things personaly for example AyyA when i raised her blood pressure. lol

    Reply

  84. khalid
    Jan 28, 2007 @ 01:20:55

    luloo said, “كما انه خطاب يكرس العقلية التآمرية… التي تقوم على الاعتقاد بوجود مؤامرة كبيرة تستهدف الاسلام, وهذه المؤامرة تحاك بشكل واع ومقصود بالخفاء, وتهدف هذه المؤامرة في النهاية الى القضاء على الاسلام والمسلمين. فهي بذلك تعتقد بأن العالم الكافر يتآمر على المسلمين ويريد الايقاع بهم وتفكيكهم. يتسم هذا الفكر التآمري بالعاطفية واللاعقلانية, فهم بعيدون كل البعد عن الموضوعية العقلانية”
    ayya replied to luloo, ” Sweet Luloo Thanks dear friend for your open mindedness, thanks for your foresight.” which was really fine until she said, ” Sectarianism is Iran’s ultimate goal, it’s filthy hands in Iraq and Lebanon is killing thousands per day. Those bombs do not differentiate between Shiite and Sunni’s or even Christians for that matter. Iran wants to start civil war in Iraq, Lebanon, Kuwait, Bahrain as well as Saudi Arabia. You are its ammunition and we’ll all be its ashes; Shiite as well as Sunni.” aint that a conspiracy theory? cos it sure sounds like one to me !

    Reply

  85. Geopolitical
    Jan 28, 2007 @ 01:58:36

    Khalid lol actually it’s AyyA’s weak analysis of politics, Surely whatever claims she makes have no sources. Comparing al qaeda to an Ayatollah who was killed by the same group seems like a decent analysis in her opinion lol.

    Reply

  86. The Expert
    Jan 28, 2007 @ 14:40:59

    Hi every body,

    Actually, these arguments are healthy and as they said: “اختلاف الرأي لايفسد للود قضية”.
    Basically, I agree with Geo that funding the murderer Saddam and support his dreams during Iran/Iraq war were fault and GCC governments are responsible about this fault.
    Yes Iran is our neighbor and we should build good relation with them. Also we should apology about that fault. But Geo I can’t believe that this ideas and sectarian hatred are stated by the person who has education from the most powerful university (as you said). When you said “look at Lebanon, Syria and Iraq without Iran no country can do much to even restore some form of peace”. Your message clearly states that Iran is the peace maker. But totally I disagree with your argument, because honestly Iran is the trouble maker in the Middle East and they should stop that otherwise this area will lose the peace. Also, we read and heard that there is resistant inside Iran about this strategy. Iran must let those countries solve their problems independently and to be not funding or support one side against other side. That means Iran playing the GCC role during Iran/Iraq war.
    You should understand that peoples looking for cohabitation, coexistence neighboring and peace. So, let’s cooperate to live without aggressiveness.

    Reply

  87. bosale7
    Jan 28, 2007 @ 15:16:59

    الاخ اللطيف جيو :

    لا يسعني القول الا : الضرب بالميت حرام

    النقاش غير مجدي معاك وان كان ممتع

    العزيزة ايا :

    شكرا 🙂

    Reply

  88. Luloo
    Jan 28, 2007 @ 16:21:41

    He says “small bubble of secularism which you wish to live in and something what will really not happen. Not in at least 50-100 years.”
    and in another comment he says “i have never said I would like an Islamic government in Kuwait”. SO WHAT DO YOU WANT THEN?????????????

    عزيزتي أيا

    ذو العقل يشقى في النعيم بعقله……….و أخو الجهالة في جهله ينعم

    عاش فكرك حرا كالطير محلقا بالعلياء

    وأدعو الله ان يحرر العقول المقيدة بسلاسل التعصب والطائفية والعنصرية الصدئة

    استمري فأنت الأقوى لأنهم لا رأي لهم، بل لمراجعهم، أنت الأكثر تواضعا وهم غرورهم سينتهي بهم إلى الهلاك

    عشت

    Reply

  89. soud13
    Jan 28, 2007 @ 16:56:43

    Geopolitical Says:
    Khalid lol actually it’s AyyA’s weak analysis of politics, Surely whatever claims she makes have no sources

    عزيزى انت من لا يجيد التحليل السياسى وبعيد عن المصداقيه

    قديما قالو التكرار يعلم الشطار لكن الظاهر انت لست بشاطر 🙂

    وأتمنى لك الشفاء من مرضك

    Reply

  90. AyyA
    Jan 28, 2007 @ 20:31:44

    KM
    Not only Islam is the religion of violence, Christianity, the most human religion of all Judo-Christian religions also contains violence in some of its preaching. Yet; Christians learned since the medieval years not to take the bible literally. So even if some fundamental acts occur here and there like the KKK, for example, it does not have much public support and it soon dies. Will Moslems be able to do that one day? I doubt it. Will Moslems stand criticism of their religion and not get emotional? Also I doubt that. That’s why I think that no religion is as violent or intolerant as political Islam, mainly because it does not approve of any other religion except Islam and it can manipulate Moslem’s emotions very easily. If you have checked the last two videos I provided above to Geo (the Shiite one), you’d see the means to control people by keeping the revenge attitude against other sects in a mass ceremonies of husainiyas. Keeping the anger alive to be able to use it as the leader wishes at the proper time. For years those mullahs were manipulating people psychologically.
    Although it is true that violent is not just a religious trait, yet history showed us time and again that the longest and the bloodiest wars were either religious, or made use of religion, as was the case with Hitler.
    Even kamikaze fighters were volunteers of a certain religious route; they had their own rituals before each act. Here is some of that from Wikipedia

    “In the Japanese language, kamikaze (IPA: [kamikaze]) (Japanese:神風), usually translated as “divine wind” (kami is the word for “god”, “spirit”, or “divinity”; and kaze for “wind”), came into being as the name of legendary typhoons said to have saved Japan from Mongol invasion fleets in 1274 and 1281”

    Seki was the first Kamikaze volunteer, and here is what he wrote

    “Japan’s future is bleak if it is forced to kill one of its best pilots. I am not going on this mission for the Emperor or for the Empire… I am going because I was ordered to.”
    Here is more on that
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze

    Kamikaze fighters committed the suicide missions only during one or two years war period and it was an act of desperation to save Japan. But it did stop afterwards. Even during Iran-Iraq war, Iranian fighters were fighting with hardly any weapons, masses were dumped at the battlefield with just a pendant key hung to their necks; the official passport from their leaders to paradise. While we witness the Islamic suicide bombing at the rise amongst Moslem followers of some conservative leaders.
    You see; when religion supports and rewards violence, its followers will accept it easily, and whole-heartedly, and the masses will adhere to it more readily, unlike any other motive that would eventually die with time.

    Reply

  91. AyyA
    Jan 28, 2007 @ 20:38:07

    Mosano babe
    Cheers

    Reply

  92. AyyA
    Jan 28, 2007 @ 21:13:35

    Khalid
    There is a difference between conspiracy theory and speculation. People speculate when they have evidences, but conspiracy theory just comes out of the blue because of a directed mindset. And this is my speculation supported by evidances: Iran’s involvement in Lebanon is no secret. Nasrulla, who is consistently trying to assume upper control in Lebanon, is Iran’s Arm. And his act of polarization in the country would only lead to civil war, much to the benefit of Iran. On the other hand Iran’s clear intervention in Iraq, providing physical and logistic aid to Shiite of Iraq is no secret either. Bush had lately authorized “U.S. troops to capture or kill Iranian agents in Iraq that are deemed harmful to U.S. soldiers or the Iraqi public. (CBS)”
    Read more here
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/26/world/main2400710.shtml
    And mind you; I think this is the stupidest act conducted by the US president that would have grave effect on escalating the conflict between Iran and the US, and might lead to a confrontation.
    And also Iran’s aid to Hamas is no secret, its spiritual affect on Shiite of Kuwait and Bahrain was clearly evident in the last Shiite demonstrations in Kuwait city during war on Lebanon, where Kuwaitis burned American and Israeli flags, and raised Hezbollah flags and banners.

    Reply

  93. AyyA
    Jan 28, 2007 @ 21:23:15

    Bosale7, sweet Luloo & Soud
    These people don’t bother me a bit, they first enter into a debate hoping, may be, to change my ideology wi yaksiboon feeni thawab LOL, but when they realize what I stand for, they start opening their fires and hit below the belt. So, don’t mind them, I’m used to their likes, mo awal marrah 😀

    Reply

  94. Geopolitical
    Jan 28, 2007 @ 21:32:28

    First off I will start with LuLooo,

    What i want? Easy, bow down to the new rising power give us all rights, high posts, equaly to Sunni/Secular/Communist politicians and veto power.

    Soud13 wana atmana enah allah yahdek enshallah o yahdi el jamee3.

    AyyA, christianity is peaceful and has “some” violence in it? Wow i wonder if jesus would be happy with the crusade slaughtering not only Muslims but jews as well.

    Please AyyA i beg you never to study politics or go into politics you are comparing Kamikazes with Iranian soilders whom went as VOLOUNTERS to do so. Yes many of them ligned up on the border of Iraq and wore Keys representing the key to heaven, in strong belief they are soilders of the 12th Imam al Mahdi (may allah hasten his appearance) and indeed they are martyrs. Do you even know the story of baseej and how it occurd? you are ignorant of every faith, even your own ideology which is secularism.

    With that video you proved nothing, you brought me al qaeda video and along with Ayatollah Mohammad baqir al Hakim whom founded a group fighting Saddam Hussain(May god curse his soul) and he was killed by Al qaeda millitants along with 80 other innocent people, this man is a martyr a true martyr for that matter, his family were slaughterd, raped, tortured and he always rose up defending Shiites, but it is secular/Sunni extremists/Western backed groups whom betrayed him in 1991 allowing over 300,000 Shiites to die. The hussaniyah is a place of worship Imam hussain died in Karbala as an example to all his followers to rise up against tyranny and oppression, Indeed we did and shall continue to do so.

    Again you judge without even studying niether sunnism or Shiasm, How many times do i have to whipe your nose in the mud in order to get the message to you? You cannot compare different ideologies together, It’s like comparing capatilism and communism and saying they are alike.

    As for G.W.bush’s speech and allowing them to kill so called Iranian agents, listen my friend you really need to put this in your small brain and think about it. Iran goes the Middle East burns, accept what is comming and zip the lip.

    Yes we are proud to say we raise Hezbollah flags a group which kicked out occupying Israel, and Hamas is a group soley fights to restore it’s land. Oh yes may I remind you, A higher Shiite council in Palestine has been created full support from Hezbollah and Iran.

    Reply

  95. AyyA
    Jan 28, 2007 @ 23:01:31

    The Expert
    I usually don’t like to talk about my personal life, knowing how judgmental people are, but since you mentioned the resistance in Iran; I want to say that I also have roots in Iran; my great grandfather was a physician and a known poet who has a monument built on his grave in his hometown in Iran, where still people visit and recite his poetry. Yet; upon the verge of Islamic revolution, my extended family were tortured, detained and dumped into prisons for no reason except that they held high positions in the country during the shah’s epoch. All their property was ransacked. Others escaped and took refuge in Western countries, US and Canada. The only ones that remained were the elderly of which some had already died and others waiting their fate. Their offspring never got to see the parents. And mind you; I also have roots in Saudi Arabia and Iraq. Now what would that make me? To whom should I pay loyalty? And my situation is not odd considering the mesh of Kuwaiti citizens; they all have roots somewhere. If we all think with the same logic as Geo, then 3ala eldeera elsalam. Sorry to say this, but I do not respect the ones who do not have loyalty to their countries. Ok; I do not approve of many governmental policies, and I do my best to fight that in civilized ways. But to me Kuwait comes first and foremost regardless of my background.

    Reply

  96. Geopolitical
    Jan 28, 2007 @ 23:25:58

    Interesting,

    I have family in Iraq, Iran, as well as Saudi shiites. First of all in Iran many of my family members were from the Tudah party(communists) and some were MKO (People’s Mujahdeen Khalq) a marxist movement also a secular one, and some whom were supporters of shah all fleeing the country, some were executed. My family die, may god bless their souls but they were on the wrong path, they knew what shah was and how he tortured people, they were executed in public, I would even have sympathy for a dead enemy as Imam Ali (AS) did when he fought his enemies. That shouldn’t make me turn on what is right in my point of view. You make every Islamist seem like a terrorist. Many i mean many people during the revolution of Iran went out in the name of the Islamic revolution and executed former SAVAC members, Shah members and what not for revenge, and revenge is completly wrong.

    My heart goes out to your family whom were executed, we still recite poetry from the 1910 revolution against Reza shah and the british occupation/along with the Soveit incrusion of northen Loristan.

    Again i tell you my loyalty is purely Shiite, i am a Pan-Shia supporter, i would never let a foriegner come and take over my country and i have stated more then once that i do not want an Islamic government in Kuwait, I want equal rights. Diplomacy comes first, negotiations come first and military movements come as a last resort to any form of conflict. There is nothing nice about war, nothing nice about a revolution or executions although sometimes these are the only ways to secure ones future. I praise Iran and i love the Islamic government, but never once did i say they were divine of mistakes.

    Again for the 1000th time my ideology even differs than Wilayat al Faqeh. But as long as they represent Shiasm i would defend them. Give me one reason why i would not be loyal to Kuwait? I have family there, I grew up there, I have Sunni/Shia friends and even liberal seculars. there is a 35% Shiite, 99% Muslims, Even the government is alright perhaps they made mistakes but who doesn’t? I only disagree with the way you generalise something you don’t even understand.

    Tell me do you even think there is a way you may be able to reprive Shiites from seeking the advice in politics/religious matters from the Grand Ayatollahs? Do you even know why I hate shah?

    During the Safavid era a deal was struck between the Mullahs of that time, Sheikh Ba’ah al deen was the grand ayatollah of his time, the same person who created the Castle in Isfahan where you hear your echo at certain mathematical positions. The deal was that the Shah’s were to always protect religious faith if it came under any form of threat providing the Mullahs stayed out of politics, I support that and i would always support it if another shah came and did it right now. I feel secure that my faith would be in the hands of a rightful person who will protect it. Along came Reza pahlavi who wanted to abolish hijab, and create a secular state, the mullahs kicked him out and installed his son, another mistake was made by Mohammad reza pahlavi indicating that the mullah’s existance was even wrong and he started to crush them because he wanted Iran to be westernised. That alone gave a huge excuse for Ayatollah Khomeini to intervene and cause a revolution, do you honestly think that if the Pahlavi dynasty never did such ignorant and stupid acts Khomeini would even recieve any form of support? he would have not even recieved it from other grand ayatollahs. You really need to look at the errors of others, and i suggest you seek the reason why the revolution took place. People were bieng taunted and humiliated for going to the mosque, is this what you would like to see in your own country? It will simply promote a bigger support for Islamic clerics to cause a coup attempt. You want to be political? Stay friendly and keep everyone happy.

    If you would like i would post websites of books and articles indicating exactly why the shah was over thrown like an idiot. Installing secularism to an extreme and making it westernised will never work in a region where Islamic clerics hold a big sway of influence, give them a hussaniyah, give them a mosque, give them preaching and keep them quiet and you’ll have your way try to go against them and you’ll see that your end will come soon.

    Reply

  97. you-sif
    Jan 29, 2007 @ 00:15:11

    آيا .. للمرة الألف .. دوما مثيرة للجدل
    وهذا سر من أسرارك .. كل الحب لك

    لقد قرأت أغلب الردود عليك .. وقد أخذت طابع بعيد عن الحوار الهادف وهو أشبه باللجاجة التي تكرر القول عند عدم الرغبة في سماع الآخر
    ولك الحق فيما تذهبين

    كتب المفكر برنارد لويس كتاب من أقوى الكتب التي توصف أحوال المسلمين بعنوان – أين الخطأ – ويجب عليك قراءته لأن فيه من المعلومات المفيدة ويؤكد بعض النقاط التي عندك وهو عميد المستشرقين الذين تصدوا للفكر الاسلامي ويعتبر من أول من تنبأ بحادثة البرجين الشهيرة وأخذ كتابه من الشهرة مالم يأخذه أي كتاب يوصف المسلمين بشكل دقيق خصوصا بعد الحادثة لتكالب الغربيين على الكتاب لأنهم يريدون فهم عقل هذا المسلم الذي يعيش بينهم معزز مكرم ومن ثم يفجر نفسه فيهم .. ولم يستطيع احد الرد على كتابه سوى المفكر العربي الأمريكي إدوارد سعيد في كتابه الشهير -الاستشراق- حيث عارض أفكار لويس التي تركزت حول الدولة العثمانية كنموذج للمسلمين .. ولن أسترسل حول الكتابين وعليك الرجوع اليهما.. لأنهما أفضل نموذج حديث للصراع الاسلامسيحي على الاطلاق
    كل التحية لك

    Reply

  98. Geopolitical
    Jan 29, 2007 @ 00:59:40

    The expert,

    I agree slightly with what you have said, but tell me who is the bigger enemy and instability in the region, is it not the U.S presence in the region? Iran has been there for thousands of years so have the Arabs, the conflicts are rooted for so long, but for the last 50 years the only people who revived this form of hatred are none other than the Americans themselves. Ofcourse Saudi arabia’s preach of hatred is another story.

    Please understand the british saying “All is fair in love and war” the americans have no rules they would go as far as shooting civilians and using depleted uranium shells funding terrorist groups to meet their advantage. Iran is a key player because this is how life is, 90% of the exiles during the Saddam era lived in Iran, from sunnis to shiites to kurds. they have ties, as for lebanon those ties go even further back to Imam Musa al sadr, who is although Iranian, he originated from lebanon. You are talking about ties over hundreds of years old it is only obvious they will support each other.

    Let’s presume Iran is causing instability, I ask you this, Who is around Iran currently? GCC countries whom will be secretly happy to see the downfall of the regime, NATO troops in Afghanistan, U.S presence in Iraq, Bases in Turkey, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar etc. Please take yourself as Iran and look into their eyes, you have countries whom would love to battle you and take you out, what can you do? How will you contain them? Guerilla groups, Militias would love some support to fight the american presence to librate their land, so why not? Give them weapons give them hastle, pressure them, rise up their populations, hurt them, rise up oil prices, more U.S troops die daily, shooting of helicopters, road side bombs, keep funding them so long as they do not restore power over the government, just keep them a thorn in the leg keep the troops thin and stretched so that if they attack or even think about it the populations would rise in their own land. As they are busy you continue your nuclear program untill you reach a stage that you will not be countered, you will be a force to reckon with. Violence and death to u.s troops means Iran must come to the table and if should Iran come to the table means the acceptance of a nuclear Iran or just more U.S soilders die daily.

    Reply

  99. bosale7
    Jan 29, 2007 @ 02:08:07

    العزيزة ايا :

    دوما عندما يفتقد النقاش الى الحجة والدليل يتجه الى نقاش شخصي ومحاولة استارة عصبية الطرف الاخر

    ماعليج من احد طول ما انتي عارفة عن شنو قاعدة تتحجين
    موفقة

    Reply

  100. bosale7
    Jan 29, 2007 @ 02:08:56

    وهذا التعليق علشان العداد يوصل 100 🙂

    keep up the good work

    Reply

  101. Luloo
    Jan 29, 2007 @ 11:52:11

    أخو الجهالة…. جيو

    إذا أنت لا تعلم ماذا تريد .. مرة تبشر بسقوط العلمانية ومرة تقول أنك لا تؤيد قيام الدولة الاسلامية في الكويت… أعتقد أن خطابك شمولي …طفولي … لا وجهة له ولا هدف … وكلام غامض لا منطق فيه ولا تناسق في المعنى… كلام يملؤه غرور الواعظ المتحدث باسم السماء والمتفوق في كل شئ على البشرية… أخي لماذا تعيش دور المظلوم والضحية بأساليبك الدرامية ,,, وتبكي وتنوح قهرا وظلما … كلنا عزيزي في مركب واحد وكلنا لنا مطالب وحقوق مسلوبة … وكلنا نبكي على تدني حقوق الانسان في الكويت

    هل تريدني أن أثحدث عن حقوق الانسان في السعودية وإيران… لا تريد لأنك ستبكي دما على ما يحدث هناك من انتهاك لحقوق الانسان… لن يكلفك الأمر سوى بحث بسيط … هل تعلم أن هاتان الدولتان لديها نسبة فقر مدقع لا تخطر على البال … هل تعلم أن 60 في المئة من الايرانيين يعيشون في فقر مدقع

    أنت تستقبح انجازات العلمانية والعلمانيين وتقول أن العلمانية انتهت ولا وجود لها … وهل تعتقد أن الكويت دولة إسلامية… بالطبع لا. هل تطبق الحدود الشرعية من تقطيع الأيادي والأرجل وخلافه … هل تعتمد على الشورى غير الملزمة للحاكم … هل تعتمد على المحاكم الاسلامية التي تطبق أحكام الشريعة أو ان اعتمادها الأساسي على القوانين الوضعية؟ هل دفع الجزية مفروضة فيها؟؟ هل المواطنة فيها للمسلم؟ هل هي الشريعة الاسلامية المصدر الأساسي للتشريع أم مصدر من المصادر؟ نحن أخي ,ان كنت لا تعلم ,نعيش ونتنفس العلمانية، ولكنها علمانية منقوصة ومعوقة وغير ديموقراطية وغير دستورية .. ولكنه الجهل المركب… ونحن نطالب بالمزيد من العلمنة في التعليم والقضاء والبرلمان ومختلف مؤسسات الدولة … تعلم لما … لأن بالعلمانية الدستورية وبالعلمانية الدستورية وحدها نستطيع أن نتعايش ونتحمل ونتقبل بعضنا البعض … اما بقيام الدولة الاسلامية سواء شيعية او اسلامية سينتهي بنا الأمر إلى برك من الدم وسنوات من الدمار والخراب والحروب. ألم تقرأ التاريخ … وما هو سوا عبرة لا يعتبر بها من هم على شاكلتك

    أنت تطالب بمزيد من الحقوق للشيعة وهذا حقك الشرعي وحقنا كذلك… ونحن نطالب بمزيد من الحقوق الانسانية للمواطن وغير المواطن بغض النظر عن دينه وعرقه وجنسه. السؤال هل تؤمن بالديموقراطية انتخابا وتصويتا وتحزبا؟ إذا كنت تقبل .. ألا تعلم أن الديموقراطية لا تعمل إلا من خلال مفاهيم العلمانية التي تقبل جميع الأديان وليس دين بعينه, وتقبل وتتعايش مع جميع الفئات والألوان السياسية وليس التيارات الدينية السياسية فقط وتتسامح مع جميع الآراء والتوجهات وليس أراء الاسلامويين فقط. ألا تعلم أنك حين تنعت العلمانية وتستقبحها تقع بتناقض واضح وجلي.. ألا تعلم أن في العلمانية لا فرق بين هذا الدين أو ذاك إلا بمقدار ما تقدمه من حلول وبرامج تنموية وتطويرية وعملية للاقتصاد والسياسة والاجتماع والثقافة. وأنها تعمل على تكريس دولة القانون التي يتمتع جميع مواطنوها من مسلمين وغير مسلمين بجميع الحقوق من غير تمييز بينهم

    أنت لا تعلم ما تريد والدليل ردك التبسطي والهش على سؤالي… هل تريد حكومة اسلامية؟ أم دولة المسلمين؟ أم حكومة من المسلمين؟ أم حكومة رجال الدين؟ هل هي حكومية سنية أم شيعية؟ هل هي سلفية أم اخوانية؟ أي مثال نتبع من التاريخ الاسلامي؟ الخلافة الراشدة؟ أي خلافة؟ أبوبكر أو عمر أو عثمان أو علي؟ أم نتبع الخلافات التي تورثت عبر الأجيال وكرست ممارسات مستبدة تحتكر الحكم وتقرب الوعاظ والمشايخ الذين يعطونهم شرعية الحكم؟ هل هي امتداد للتجارب المعاصرة التي نشهدها كالتجربة الإيرانية أم الأفغانية أم السودانية أم السعودية؟ المؤسف أن المسلمين لا يتفقون على أي نموذج لحكم أو نظام دولة.. والكل يعتقد أن الحق الالهي ملكه وان الله معه دون غيره وان الحل لديه وأن ما يعتقد به هوالحقيقة بعينها .. وما يجب ان يكون .. وان الآخر على بينة من الضلال والكفر… والنتيجة إذا لم تكن علمانية … حروب وهلاك

    وصفك للعلمانية بهذه الأوصاف تدل على ثقافة مزيفة . أعلم أنك ستأتي بمفاهيم ومعاني متعددة للعلمانية من وجهة نظرك، وستقول أن العلمانية هي دعوة للقضاء على الدين ولكن في الواقع هو تشويه للحقيقة لأن العلمانية تعني العالم وتشمل الانسان والتنمية والدين والثقافة والحب والعلم. أما ثقافتكم… فهي ثقافة الكراهية والتعصب

    في الواقع أنت مفلس فكريا … مفلس ومغرور.. كيف لا أعلم؟؟؟؟

    Reply

  102. soud13
    Jan 29, 2007 @ 12:32:10

    Luloo

    >>>>في الواقع أنت مفلس فكريا … مفلس ومغرور.. كيف لا أعلم؟؟؟؟

    Reply

  103. soud13
    Jan 29, 2007 @ 12:36:07

    مادرى وين راح بقيه تعليقى

    في الواقع أنت مفلس فكريا … مفلس ومغرور.. كيف لا أعلم؟؟؟؟

    مقوله صحيحه تماما

    هو يدعى الغرور لتعويض شعور النقص الناشىء من الأفلاس 🙂

    بعبارة أخرى افلاس نتج عنه نقص نتج عنه غرور لتعويض هذا النقص

    Reply

  104. Geopolitical
    Jan 29, 2007 @ 15:19:25

    LuLuoo,

    when you mention kids and growing up you are a child, yes i am against secularism but i still don’t want an islamic government. You are abused by extreme islam, what can i do? i just pray for you only that you come to your senses, look for god that will help.

    60%? lol again just like the average secular kuwaiti speaking with no sources, please i beg for one person to speak with sources. ana maghroor? enti kel kalamech bidoon ay ma9adir? ya marra stay away from politics you make it look bad please.

    Who said i am complaining? lol i am saying the truth, wetha sheft shay ghala6 laish askit? I can make it better, why be queit? your willing to accept any condition you live in as long as you breath and eat and sit in a normal house? wow that’s pretty stupid.

    I told you 1000 times, I do not care if your secular or not, abolish my faith and i’m ready to go to war with you. this is how it is. i suggest you read history secularism has either abolished belief, perhaps if it is implemented right everything will be equal, bas shely yathmenly hal shay? yemkin ana meflis fekryan 3ala goltech, lol lakin el 3elmany ma 3enda rab ye5af mena,, yemkin bacher yegom o yesawe majzara wala 7ata ye7aseb nafsa. you ignorant buffon i defend islam not muslims, there are bad people in every idealogy. Another point you ignorant person is that no one ever asked me what i want as a government to be ruled on. lol but ok you assume and believe shasawe fech? allah yshafech enshallah. Another point i would like to towards your ignorant self is, what environment will secularism bring? yalla ignorant woman. Every person wants to implement their idealogy seculars, islamists, christians, jews etc. who gets to win, wins why are you upset? etha enti shayfa el wath3 bel kuwait muree7 shut your mouth and live, i on the other hand don’t like to accept even 1% of unfairness. =)

    salam

    Reply

  105. eshda3wa
    Jan 29, 2007 @ 16:02:52

    my dear ppl of different idiologies, 3aib 3alaikom laman u disrespect eachother, o 3aib 3alaikom laman u disrespect religion. o ayya my dear when u disrespect immam 3ale 3alaih elsalam ur only making urself look bad.maybe u should read about him a little, know wat he is and wat he has done ba3dain tekalimay. on a differnt note : here is a little vedio for you, copy paste it and watch.. oo allah yes my muslim allah yhadeekom inshala,
    http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,31200-galloway_060806,00.html

    Reply

  106. kila_ma6goog
    Jan 29, 2007 @ 18:40:59

    السلام

    أول شي مشكورة على المعلومات القيمة عن الكماكازي

    انا لا زلت مصر على وجهة نظري بأن الدين أو المعتقد ليس له علاقة بشخصية الفرد و انعكاساتها و توجهاتها, نعم بالنسبة للعوام و الناس اللي ما تتعمق ممكن يشوفون ان كل مصايب الدنيا بسبب الدين أو اللا دين

    بالنسبة لي اعتقد ان البيئة و التربية و المستوى العلمي و الظروف هي التي تحدد شخصية هذا الشخص, فاذا اجتمعت كل العوامل لتصنع لنا محاربا فسيستعين هذا المحارب بالدين او أي سبب أخر يبرر له افعاله

    و الأمثلة أكثر من أن تذكر

    على صعيد آخر و مع احترامي لوجهة نظركم الا انني لا ارى العمليات الانتحارية بالصورة البشعة التي ترونها, انا هنا لا اتكلم عن 11 سبتمبر أو قتل الابرياء لكن اتكلم عن مبدأ العملية الانتحارية

    واحد يذبح نفسه من أجل اعتقاد

    و السؤال هنا, لو كانت الجهات الداعمة للعمليات الانتحارية تملك التكنلوجيا و الأسلحة الحديثة و طائرات الشبح و القنابل النووية فهل ستلجأ الى العمليات الانتحارية؟

    الجواب هو لا باختصار

    الدين يعطيك كلام عام و تعليمات عامة و يترك للتقدير الشخصي المجال لتحديد أفعاله, الاسلام يقولك اذا احد طقك طقه

    ما ادري ان كان للعلمانية أو اللااعتقادية رأي أخر في هذه المسألة؟ يعني هل معتقدك يا آيا يحث على أن اذا احد اعتدى عليك تسكتينله؟

    و هل هذا لا عنف؟

    و هل هذا النوع من اللا عنف صحيح؟

    Reply

  107. AyyA
    Jan 29, 2007 @ 23:52:03

    You-sif
    Thanks for the book bro, I will order it and add it to my list.

    Eshda3wa
    Do you call constructive criticizing 3aib and bad? If I gave you a play (masrahiya) and told you” what is your critical view about it?” Would you be paying disrespect to the people who composed this play? Not at all, you would be only stating a point of view especially when this play has some impact on the society and people’s lives. And religion, which has the most impact on our lives, should not be above criticism. The prophet himself, alsa7aba and all imams who are considered idles to many people should not be above criticism. This is not called disrespect. I did not mock him in anyway, I didn’t insult him by cursing in anyway, I merely criticized his passages and that’s what I believe. Now, if you consider the prophet and imams are sacred figures that no one has the right to analyze whatsoever; then you are mixing them with deity. And if there is deity, it should be perfect, but humans are far from perfects, they have faults, and once they become prominent figures that affect a large strip of society, they should not be above criticism.

    KM
    Why do we have to think on terms of war only, war and violence should be left as the final option when we lose all hope in peace. No one said that you should not defend yourself; of course you have all the right to do that. But using violence in self-defense should be left as the final resort, when no other options are available. But our situation in the Middle East has become what I call shilla 6oma6a, everyone is defending themselves. Hams is defending Palestine, Fat7 is defending Palestine, Iran is defending itself, Syria is defending itself, Israel is defending itself, Nasrulla is defending Lebanon, Qaeda leaders are defending Islam. Iraqi Shiite are defending themselves, Iraqi Sunnis are defending themselves. USA is defending its interest in the region. Even Sadam 7usain was defending Iraq. Now if this is the case; then who is the oppressor? Self-defense is a very general term, and there are many means to defend oneself, conducting mutual benefit treaties is one civilized option to defend ones interests. War and violence does not bear fruit, it only heaps corpses.

    Reply

  108. Geopolitical
    Jan 30, 2007 @ 00:07:37

    AyyA,

    To Shiites Imams/including the prophet are Infallible (14 ma39oom) hence they are above critism, i think you are far from perfect and so am i, but again you have the right to believe what you want and entitled to critise as long as you don’t insult. But didn’t you mock the fact that the prophet travelled to al aqsa? “By a weird greek creature” I believe is how you put it, isn’t that mockery?

    Reply

  109. kasik ya watan
    Jan 30, 2007 @ 00:26:57

    العزيزة آيا …

    أعلم بأني تأخرت جداً بالتعليق على هذا الموضوع الشيق ولكن السبب هو أني رجعت من السفر منذ يومين فقط واحتجت لقراءة كل التعليقات لمحاولة فهم عقلية وشخصية الأخ جيو خصوصاً … ولكنني فشلت … فكلامه به من المتناقضات والتعصب والحقد و العقد ما جعل مشاعري تتضارب ما بين ضحك من وراء القلب على ما يقول و بكاء من صميم القلب على مستقبل الكويت مع أمثاله

    عموماً … أتمنى أن يسمح لي الأخ جيو أن أستخدم تعليقاته في إثبات ما ذكرته في إحدى المواضيع السابقة في مدونتنا المتواضعة تحت عنوان … لمن الولاء للدين للقبيلة أم للكويت؟؟؟ تعليقاته تؤكد حقيقة ما ذكرت في هذا الموضوع

    http://kasikyawatan.blogspot.com/2006/11/blog-post.html

    أعتقد بأنكم تناولتم كافة جوانب النقاش ولم يتبقى ما يمكن مناقشته في هذا الموضوع … أفضل أن تنتظروا ظهور الإمام الثاني عشر المهدي المنتظر لكي يبين للأخ جيو الحقيقة ومن كان منهم على صواب ومن كان على خطأ … إلى أن يظهر المهدي لا يملك الأخ جيو إلا إتباع ما يمليه عليه أئمته ومراجعه من وكلاء المهدي

    سؤال للأخ جيو … كم سنة مرت منذ إختفاء المهدي ؟؟؟!!! وهل هو لا يزال حي يرزق ؟؟؟؟!!!!!! مشكلة أغلب الأديان والمذاهب أنها تستخدم الخرافات والخزعبلات لإخفاء ضعفها وهوانها … ونلجأ نحن البشر كما الأديان لهذه الخزعبلات لإخفاء ضعفنا وهواننا وتعليق تخلفنا على شماعة … إنها إرادة الله الذي لا راد لقدره … فلنصبر فلنا نعيم الآخرة … إنتظروا فالمهدي قادم … أمريكا الشيطان الأعظم … إلخ إلخ إلخ

    أما مقاطع الأفلام التي وضعت في هذا الموضوع فقد أصبحت مصدر تندر لنا في مجالسنا … عيل خامنئي يقول بهجة تقوم الناس تبكي … هاهاهاهاها … إرحم ترحم يا أخ جيو

    نحن لا نقول أن أمريكا هي المثل الأعلى للعلمانية … ولنا على أمريكا مآخذ كثيرة في سياساتها الخارجية … ولا نطالب كذلك بعلمانية بعض الدول العربية … مطالبتنا هي … أرجوك ركز معاي شوي … العلمانية الدستورية الديموقراطية … وصلت ولا أحتاج أوضح أكثر

    ما عندي مشكلة إنك تكون شيعي ولكني لا أقبلها لا منك ولا من السني ولا المسيحي ولا الملحد لما يحاول يفرض علي أفكاره … الفرض الوحيد يجب أن يكون لدولة تحترم كل هذه الأفكار وتحميها وتحمي متبعيها … وهذا اللي نطالب فيه … لا الطبطبائي ولا عبدالصمد ولا لاري ولا الحربش … تبي تصلي تبي تروح حسينية تبي تروح كنيسة تبي تروح معبد بوذي … ما يهم … بس لا تفرض على أفكارك

    إنت يمكن متضايق لأن السنة مسيطرين على الكويت … بس أحنا متضايقن لأن السنة مسيطرين على الكويت ألحين بمساعدة السعودية … ومتضايقين لأن الشيعة يبون يسيطرون عليها بعدين بمساعدة إيران … أحنا نبي الكويتين يسيطرون على الكويت … الكويتين إللى ولائهم للكويت مش لمذهب أو طائفة … إللى قاهرني إن هذيلة قاعد ينقرضون … يمكن لأن ما عندهم أفيون الشعوب كسلاح يستخدمونه لكسب أتباع جدد … أصعب شيء هو عندما تحاول الإقلاع عن الإدمان الله لا يبلينا … كنت قاب قوسين أو أدني من أني أدمن الدين … بس الله ستر ورجعت لصوابي والحمد لله … ديني الذي أؤمن به الآن هو الأخلاق والإنسانية

    الأخ جيو … أتمنى أن تكون صادق مع نفسك ولو لمرة واحدة في هذا الحوار وتذهب لتعيش في دولتك المثالية … إيران … أو تكون كويتي بحق وتنبذ هذه النبرة الطائفية المتأصلة فيك

    إسمحيلي آيا على الإطالة … وكاسك يا وطن

    Reply

  110. eshda3wa
    Jan 30, 2007 @ 00:53:34

    my dear ayya, u can critisize all u want, our beliefs differ, and i believe in the end God will be the judge and we will be separated by heaven and earth… ana kint m3tartha 3ala esloob elcritisizim malich.. it is 3aib when u make my belief in God, his messenger and my beloved immam seem barbaric, maldeen ela elsama7. i do believe mohammed was sent ra7matan lil3alameen. 7attan elrasool (pubh) 7athar min radicals. dnt make the mistakes of a handful of ppl be the basis of islam. how many hundreds of millions of muslims are there in the world. when u can put the names of those u deem terrorist on a list, it hardly speaks of the religion. lets not get too carried away with a few documentaries on tv.
    o 3atham allah ojorkm bmo9ab karbala, sayed elshuhada2 elimmam el7ussain 3alaih elsalam.

    Reply

  111. AyyA
    Jan 30, 2007 @ 01:37:39

    Kasik
    Take your time bro, the space is all yours, and welcome back, nawart eldearah 😀

    Eshda3wa
    With all due respect; no matter what is the style, a believer would always see criticism as a disrespect. Take elburaq as an example; to me it is based on superstitions and not solid facts, when I compare it to Greek creatures, it was a simile meant to show that the two are based on the same concept in my ideology, while others consider it mockery and disrespect.
    Ok let me give you another example; if I told you that a tiger is just another lazy animal, would I be disrespectful to your beliefs? Did I hurt your feelings? I bet you are saying what the hell is she talking about? But; if you look at this clearly; you’d see that the majority of Buddhists around the world consider tigers to be sacred and wise creatures and they do not call them by any name except “LORD”. I know; you would say, you can’t compare the two, but mind you, to me, they both are the same so I can compare them, yet to you or to the Buddhists this comparison is not fair.
    I hope I made my point clear.

    Reply

  112. kila_ma6goog
    Jan 30, 2007 @ 01:46:51

    العزيزة آيا

    ما كان القصد هو تبرير العنف, القصد ان العنف ماله شغل بدين الشخص و لكن عادة ما يجنح الانسان لاستخدام العنف للظروف الاقتصادية او السياسية أو العسكرية او أي ظرف آخر لكنه سرعان ما يعلق سبب عنفه على شماعة الدين و الدفاع عنه

    مع احترام لك و لبقية الأخوة المثقفين سواء الدينيين أو اللا دينيين الا انني ما قاعد اشوف حوار بناء و ممكن الواحد يحصل منه فكرة جديدة

    الحوار داير على حوادث محددة و اشخاص محددين و أزمنة محددة يعني والله ليش فلان سوه و ليش فلنتان سوه

    في حوارات الاديان و المعتقدات الكلام بالعموم أفضل من التخصيص و ذكر الأمثلة خصوصا في الانتقاد, خل نطلع من دائرتنا الضيقة و نشوف الموضوع من خارج الصندوق على قولة الامريكان

    انا متحامل شوي عليكم لان ملاحظ ان اللادينيين و خصوصا جماعتنا حاطين دوبهم و دوب الاسلام كأنه ماكو شي غلط في هالدنيا الا الاسلام و المسلمين, و بو نواف و بن كريشان و أيا مثال على هالتحامل الغير مبرر و اللي يوحي بأنكم مستقصدين الاسلام بشكل خاص

    اتمنى صراحة انكم تطلعون من هالعقدة و ان كيف ننتقد و نفضح و نهاجم الاسلام و تحاولون تشرحولنا أفكاركم و ليش المفروض ان احنا نتنور و نفكر مثلكم و شنو اللي عاجبكم بحياتكم الحالية و شنو الاشياء الايجابية بالالحاد و كيف ساهم الالحاد و عدم الايمان بدين في تطور شخصيتكم و انسانيتكم و طموحاتكم؟

    ودنا نعرف هالمواضيع مو بس قاعدين نتناجر ليش المسلمين ارهابيين و ليش الشيعة و ليش السنة و ليش الطبطبائي , مواضيع مكررة و النقاش فيها ماله نهاية او بداية

    من صجي ودي احد منكم يجاوب على هالاسئلة و يبين لنا مزايا الالحاد و شنو اللي يمتاز فيه الملحد عن صاحب الدين

    و شكرا جزيلا

    Reply

  113. AyyA
    Jan 30, 2007 @ 01:56:47

    KM
    Fair enough bro, I will do that in my next post and let it be open for a debate. I just need a break for a while to gather my thoughts and I hope to do that as soon as possible.
    Thanks to you

    Reply

  114. eshda3wa
    Jan 30, 2007 @ 02:15:12

    ayya… if the tiger ment to much to the buddist then i would not say its a lazy animal to one. mind u i would not call it lord either. bs ra7 ara3e masha3er ele ga3d akalma.. oo i understand ina religion is a very sensitive subject, o it seems “wain mat6geenha 3oyah” bs it wouldnt hurt to try and be a little more aware of ur lahguage. and that goes for everybody. seriously ppl shino kel kilma welthanya ur calling eachother ignorant, fee shay esma adab el7adeeth. o allah yahde eljamee3 inshallah

    Reply

  115. AyyA
    Jan 30, 2007 @ 02:39:38

    Eshda3wa
    Would you refrain from eating 7alal beef, especially in Hindu populated areas, say in the West so that you would not hurt their feelings? Or would you stop sacrificing sheep in 7aj, so that you would not hurt the feelings of Animal sympathizers?

    Reply

  116. eshda3wa
    Jan 30, 2007 @ 06:02:44

    ayya, u do not get what im trying to say, we are all free to believe, do and say whatever we want. i dont have a problem with eating meat, bs ma aroo7 7ag an animal sympathizer n kill one infront of them to try n prove my point. ur entitled to your own idoelogy, u can talk about it, try to convince people of it, bs u shouldnt undermine mine. see where im going with this? u can say its agreeing to disagreeing. our different ideologies should not make enimies of us. instead of pointing out wat u think are fauls on islams part, just promote wat u think of as pros in ur ideology. get ur message across tell me why u think its superior or better. you wont get anywhere by undermining mine. etha ana abe aksebich ma asabech, bel3ax..

    Reply

  117. kila_ma6goog
    Jan 30, 2007 @ 08:16:30

    waiting:)

    Reply

  118. Geopolitical
    Jan 30, 2007 @ 11:51:49

    eshda3wa,

    3atham allah ajrech bemo9ab karbala, shaheed al shohada2 wa ameer el mo2mineen wabna rasool allah, al 7ussain ibn 3ali

    Who are you trying to convince? here innerself is weak, this is why when a friend of mine asked me, would you ever declare secularists/communists/socialists as infidels? I replied simply no. He asked me why time and time again. The only reason i wouldn’t is because they are really not a threat they can chant, shout, scream, accuse, assume but they really won’t and can’t do anything. So what if someone insults our beliefs, yesterday another person called Latom on ashoura “khurafat” i simply ignored his statement. AyyA believes and assumes she has the perfect analysis to religion and that she is exposing the truth. God will judge. We as Muslims should be confident in our beliefs, there has always been the likes of AyyA around the world since the start, they really mean little to cause any harm, simply stating an opinion.

    Did she win any of those whom are pro-Islam to her side? no, did she convince you or me or anyone else (non-secularists)? no, How many people turn Muslim a day? It is the fasted spreading religion in the world and Shiasm is the fastest spreading sect in the world. To establish any form of ideology by critising others, mocking, comparing two different things with one another will really get her no where especially in the Middle East. The only form of plus i would give to AyyA is that i admire her motivation to expose her form of reality as do I. But her generalisation of comparing extremists with Ayatollahs, Prophets with god knows what, Islam as terrorism shows that she needs to learn a lot. =) Wasalam 3alaikom.

    Reply

  119. Not really true
    Jan 30, 2007 @ 12:30:26

    Dear Geo,

    As a matter of fact, I am a born and raised Kuwaiti muslima, that has been practicing it since birth, I never talk, a silent reader. I got introduced to weblogging recently, I kept on reading Ayya’s weblog, and gotten introduced to Bin Keraishan’s weblog. and all of a sudden, I started thinking of the time where I was a kid and started questioning things in school, and I get threatened that we don’t ask those questions cos they are 7aram. It is only now, in my 30’s where I got to know why. Ayya and Bin Keraishan showed me why. how I was captivated all these years, they have opened my eyes, and although I never said anything to them, but thanks to them, I have peace inside me. I was pro islam until I found those two weblogs, and I am liberated, I still need to learn so much, I am still controlled by all the years of brain washing, but I am one step at a time in that direction, I guess it needs time.

    thanks

    Reply

  120. Geopolitical
    Jan 30, 2007 @ 16:25:07

    Not really true,

    Well i think you are also weak, you have the right to question what you believe, perhaps you have not been guided properly =) and in Islam there is no 7aram to question anything. I have personally sent questions and emails questioning the existance of god, his prophets, and what not. I have recieved anwsers various of times, what is the opposite of you and me is, I was pro-Secularism untill i found the peace inside of me and that is the way of Ahal al bayt(AS). If you wish to even debate anything from the existance of god, all the way to proof, then I invite you to join a forum, and you can come debate. Will you turn it down like AyyA lol. What is there to be affraid of? or to reject? It’s just a debate unless someone like AyyA is affraid a true believer of Islam might suprass her in debating. Give me one reason why i should accept secularism, why should I believe in al 3elmaniyah, it brings nothing but weakness, who do you believe in? what do you believe in? What is your purpose to be alive, if you die where will you go? Is there an afterworld? How do you know god is not there, how do you acknowledge the fact that Islam brings unfairness and terrorism? Extremists? there are marxist extremists, communists, Neocons, NWO, PNAC, all these are secular movements and ideologies which are extreme. Someone who resolves to violence in order to spread their faith or ideology be it muslim or not is simply to weak to even have a debate, for example al qaeda, or the clerics in Saudi arabia, recently bin jabrain has called Shiites infidels if he truely believes so, let him face a Shiite scholar in a debate. If secularists want to call us sheeple, misguided, jihadists, then let them come to a face to face, or any form of live debate and bring proof as well as sources from our books, and we will also begin to prove how Secularism is nothing but weakness.

    Again I ask AyyA, yourself and whoever else to join in a debate with my coleages and we will librate you from Secularist brain washing.

    Wasalam alaikom.

    Reply

  121. eshda3wa
    Jan 30, 2007 @ 18:18:30

    Not really true
    if ur beliefs could be changed by two blogs, then sweety excuse my language thats pathetic. two blogs? r u serious?
    i come from one of the most divided families there is, we are she3a, sinna, socialist, athesits,secularist, christians. u name it n ill name a person thats related to me by blood that follows it. hell i have an aunt who has a shrine of nearly every religion and she claims its one god, dosent matter which way u pray. ive heard them talk, and argue, n fite. who is rite? i had to find out on my own. so i read and read and im still reading some more.
    i urge u to take Geo up on his offer. it seems u wont be a hard person to convince of anything, and i would love to introduce u to shaism. ide be happy to list books for u to read.

    Reply

  122. Geopolitical
    Jan 30, 2007 @ 18:58:26

    BEIRUT, Jan 30 (Reuters) – Attackers killed 40 Shi’ite Muslim pilgrims in Iraq on Tuesday and Hezbollah’s leader warned of the threat of civil war in Lebanon as tensions across the Middle East overshadowed the annual rite of Ashura.

    In most of the Arab world the climax of the ritual, in which Shi’ites mourn the slaying over 13 centuries ago of the Prophet Mohammad’s grandson Imam Hussein, went off peacefully.

    But the talk from worshippers and preachers alike was of impending struggle and conflict.

    At a huge Ashura gathering in Beirut’s Shi’ite southern suburbs, Hezbollah leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah accused U.S. President George W. Bush of creating chaos in Lebanon.

    In Saudi Arabia, hundreds of black-clad mourners from the kingdom’s Shi’ite minority joined street processions. Some carried posters of Nasrallah, openly identifying with their Lebanese co-religionists.

    “The fight against tyranny has come again,” said a teenager who gave his name as Hussein as he marched in the Gulf coast town of Tarut. “With the political situation now and the corruption, we are making war on all oppressors.”

    Imam Hussein was killed in the year 680 in a conflict that entrenched a schism between Sunni and Shi’ite Muslims that has never been healed.

    Sectarian coexistence in the Middle East has been frayed by Sunni-Shi’ite bloodletting in Iraq, where thousands of people have been killed since an attack on a Shi’ite mosque in Samarra in February 2006, raising fears of all-out civil war.

    Bombers struck twice on Tuesday. Thirteen people were killed and 39 wounded when a roadside bomb hit a Shi’ite procession in the town of Khanaqin northeast of Baghdad, police said.

    Then a suicide bomber blew himself up among worshippers outside a Shi’ite mosque in Balad Ruz, about 80 km (50 miles) south of Khanaqin, killing 23 people and wounding 57.

    Gunmen in Baghdad ambushed two minibuses carrying pilgrims back from shrines in Najaf, killing four and wounding nine.

    TARGET FOR MILITANTS

    Fearing a possible strike by insurgents, Iraqi authorities had deployed 11,000 police and soldiers in the holy Shi’ite city of Kerbala, the place where Imam Hussein died and the focus of the annual Ashura commemoration.

    Ashura has been a target in the past for Sunni militants who view Shi’ites — a majority in Iraq but a minority in the Muslim world — as heretics. Suicide bombings and other attacks on Ashura crowds in Kerbala and Baghdad killed 171 people in 2004.

    Hundreds of thousands of Shi’ite pilgrims thronged the alleyways of Kerbala. Many waved green, red and black flags, while others beat their chests to the sound of drums and religious chants.

    In Lebanon, Ashura ceremonies followed street clashes last week between the Hezbollah-led opposition and government supporters in which seven people were killed and 400 wounded.

    The unrest, in which Sunnis confronted Shi’ites and Christians fought among themselves, reignited memories of the country’s 1975-1990 civil war.

    Nasrallah rejected an accusation by Bush on Monday that his Syrian- and Iranian-backed group was stirring trouble in Lebanon and said the U.S. president had inflamed matters.

    “The one who fomented chaos in Lebanon, who destroyed Lebanon, who killed women and children, old and young in Lebanon, is George Bush,” he said in a fiery speech.

    Nasrallah accused Bush and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice of ordering Israel to launch last year’s war in Lebanon.

    He also warned against the danger of domestic strife in Iraq, Lebanon and the Palestinian territories.

    “Today the biggest challenge facing all the resistance groups in Lebanon, Palestine and Iraq is to avoid slipping into civil wars and internal strife, as the nation’s enemies want.”

    Hundreds of thousands of Shi’ites marched through the streets, beating their chests in a sign of grief over Hussein’s martyrdom and chanting “Death to America, death to Israel”.

    http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L30820253.htm

    God Bless the Ayatollahs and the scholars, Secularists/Sunni extremists will never have any form of security for us, it is time we took our rights, god forbid diplomacy and protests fail, we will resolt to an open armed conflict. God bless you and especially the martyrs whom were killed in this special day.

    Reply

  123. kasik ya watan
    Jan 30, 2007 @ 21:25:25

    يا أخ جيو

    ترى أذيتنا تعالولي بره وتعالولي بره … يا أخي شكلك ما عندك سالفة وتبينا نروح حق مراجعك اللي ما تقدر تخالفهم أصلاً … لو يقولون لك قط نفسك بالنار قطيتها … يبه ترى يقدرورن يدخلون عندنا بدون إسم ما في مشكله … حياهم الله مدام قصدهم خير … مع إني ما أتريا منهم خير أصلاً

    لا وأخر شي رايح وناسخلي أخبار قص ولزق وحاطها … كم مرة نقولك أحنا مو مع السنة ولا الشيعة ولا غيرهم … أحنا بس نبي نعيش بسلام ونبي كلمن يحترم الثاني … ترى أقدر أجيب أخبار لي بكره عن جرائم مقتدى الصدر وجيش المهدي وجند السماء و مغنية و نصرالله … وتفجيرات المقاهي الشعبية في الكويت ومحاولة إغتيال الأمير وإختطاف الجابرية … والا هذي تعتبرها أعمال وطنية مثل صاحبك المهري

    تقولي إنتوا أحسن … عيل ياهل عمره ما صار خمس سنين يشق راسه بسيف شكو … مو حرام … ترى إذا بندخل في جدال منو أحسن ما راح نخلص ولا راح نوصل لحل ولا نتيجة … لا نصير مثل الصعايدة إللي ثارهم ما يخلص إلين ما ينسون ليش بدأ أصلاً … إذاً فالأفضل إنا نقول يا أخي إنت إتبع المذهب إللي تبيه وآنا أتبع المذهب أو اللامذهب إللي أبيه … لا تفرض على ولا أفرض عليك … ويحكم علاقتنا دستور يحفظ حقوقي أنا وياك كبشر ويحمينا من بعض … هذه هي العلمانية الدستورية … إفهم يا فهيم أرجوك … إنت ليش حاس بالخطر من العلمانية الدستورية … ترى هي الحل الوحيد لمنطقة تمزقها العنصريات المذهبية والطائفية … إرحم ترحم يا أخي … الله يهديك

    … وكاسك

    Reply

  124. Geopolitical
    Jan 30, 2007 @ 22:13:54

    Kasik,

    lol eshfeek metnarfez ya 3azeezi? I invited you, i didn’t insult you. Jond al sama2 mo mo3taraf feha fa la teg3ad tejma3ha weya el 9adr. O mo7awalat eqtiyal el ameer (ma3na mit2akd enah 7ezb el ba3th wa mokhabarat el 3raqiya) kanaw nas met3a9been o fe kel math-hab aw 7araka feha met3a9been wenta bel that met3a9eb lol. el mohri ana mali da3wa fe, fel akher howa wakeel marje3 bas.

    Shag rasa bel saif, shag rasek ohwa? ma a3teqid fa ya 3elmany eskit o la tetkalam madam ma qetal a7ad min a97abek wabna2ek o sha3bek. o bel 3aks ako nateeja, ana ma gelt e7na a7san min a7ad yal 3elmany, lakin ashof ma9la7ty o ma9la7at min ataba3 el math-hab el ja3fari, o kelman yeshof ma9la7ta. menu farath 3alaik? enta et6ale3 kalam min 3endik? lol ana geltlaha ta3alay 7awri el shabab, i think she is educated enough to anwser, Did i personaly call upon you to join? If you do not want too, then don’t but you are still more than welcome to join, bas shaklek metnarfez min wijoodi lol. o ya 7abeebi lel mara el alf ana gayel 7ag el nas ehni, enta ensan wana ensan ma e5talafna, etbe3 el 3elmaniya, math-hab el senni, math-hab el shee3i, ana ma hamni la zad wala nega9, la teghayar shay, bas la taghlu6 la 3ala marja3i, wala 3ala math-habi, you want to critise that’s fair enough, the only fault I see in all of this is that you cannot make out the difference between insulting and critising. wel 3elmaniyah el destoriya ely tetkalam 3anha kan awal e3tiqad ana meshait wara o 9ara7a sheft ham ma mina fayda o hatha rayi el sha59i.

    ana 7as bel 5a6ar? lol ana gelt akthar min marra, enah el 3elmanyeen the3af lay akher daraja, 7ata ath3af min el wahabiya, wala fe ay 5of minhom, shenu el 3elmaniya el distoriya? cham sha59 yetbe3ha eb sharq el aw9a6, cham 7araka 3endkom? shenu emkaneyatkom el 3askariya wel seyaseya, getlek lel marra el alf, ento la shay benesba ley ana wala el maraje3 ely ana atbe3ha, el sistani bro7ha 3enda 40-60 million motabe3 mest3eden fe ay la7tha yesawon ely ohwa ye2amur fe, shely 7arek? shely emza3lek min hal shay? el nas me5tareena, el nas etab3o, ento ely khalona mo e7na ely enkhalekom 🙂

    ya 3azeezi ya 3elmany, ana gelt o thekart akthar min marra, enah el 3elmaniya ma etsabib ay no3 min kha6ar ley, lakin lo ashof enha tethur math-habi, a7ather, wetha sheft mako fayda, I will begin to spread influence and if you resort to any form of violence =) god forbid, you know who we are very well. Be secular, be whatever just don’t threaten the very existance of my beliefs, like the Shah of Iran did, and those similar to him.

    Gooly enta fahemni, shenu el 3elmaniya betyeebly ana o betyeeb 7ag abna2i fel mostaqbal? that we have a disco in the middle of the street? that drinking is permisable? that fornication is fine? that being gay is alright? are you willing to accept a gay son or daughter? this is secularism it abrogates nothing and allows everything, enta rathi ra2ees el dawla yekon shaath ya3ne? rathi yekbron fe be2a la ako 7alal la ako 7aram? mako ay 9ay6ara 3ala hal shaghlat? Shoof el United kingdom, what do the kids do here? smoke crack, drink by the time they are 16, you have mixed race kids half of them don’t know who their fathers are is this the society YOU want? if not, then how do you plan to establish it without any form of religion playing a role? you will be secular and ban drinking/fornication/etc? you will still resort to facts of religion in that case. IF i am wrong about all of this, then i ask you, explain to me in detail you and your secular friend AyyA, infact give me a scenario of what Kuwait would be like in a secular society “al distoriya al 3elmaniya fel kuwait” I am waiting for your response. arjo tetkalam eb jad lana ana fi3lan wedi a3aref shely enta eb to9ala bel 3elmaniya maltek ely thabe7ni feha wely ma etsawe ay tafreqa 7asab kalamek.

    Reply

  125. kasik ya watan
    Jan 31, 2007 @ 00:21:49

    الأخ جيو

    بداية ردك الأخير كان فيها من السطحية … والاستخفاف بالعقول … والإرهاب الفكري … والتهديد بالإرهاب الجسدي … ما لا يتحمله بشر وما جعلني أشفق عليك منك … وجعلني كذلك أتمسك أكثر بالمطالبة بالعلمانية الدستورية

    إلا أنني استشفيت … أو على الأقل أقنعت نفسي بصدق مطالبتك لتوضيح العلمانية الدستورية التي نطالب بها وعليه أتمنى أن تقوم بقراءة بعض المواضيع المذكورة أدناه والتي قمنا بكتابتها أنا و لولو في مدونتنا

    وإن كنت فعلاً حريص على المعرفة فأتمنى أن تقوم بقراءة ردودنا على بعض التعليقات كذلك, خصوصاً في موضوع “إلا حريتي” حيث ستجد الإجابة على موضوع خلط الدين بالأخلاق الذي أكدت عليه في ردك أعلاه حيث جعلت الدين أمر ضروري لوجود أخلاق علماً بأنك تعلم … أو أرجو أنك تعلم … بوجود أمثلة حية كثيرة أمام أعيننا عن أشخاص متدينين جداً ويفتقرون أبسط أساسيات الأخلاق العامة, في حين أنك ستجد من لا يعرف طريق المسجد ولكنك ستحلف بأخلاقه العالية

    هذا دون الحاجة للتطرق لحقيقة نسبية الأخلاق … إذا كنت قد سمعت عنها … حيث قد تعتبر من تلبس البكيني محترمة جداً في بلداً ما في حين أن من قد تكشف وجهها تعتبر فاجرة وفاسقة في بلد آخر

    إذاً هي في النهاية أعراف وتقاليد المجتمع ما يحدد الأخلاق والتصرفات المطلوبة للإنخلاط به أو الإنعزال عنه … بدون فرض

    أتركك أخيراً مع بعض المواضيع التي قد تجد بها الإجابة لتساؤلاتك الأخيرة

    ونعم أنا علماني وفخور بذلك وشكراً على تأكيد هذه الصفة فيني في ردك… وكاسك

    الليبرالية و العلمانية: أين هي المشكلة !!!!؟؟؟؟
    http://kasikyawatan.blogspot.com/2006/07/blog-post.html

    الدولة الاسلامية والعلمانية: أين الحل
    http://kasikyawatan.blogspot.com/2006/07/blog-post_13.html

    الثالوث المقدس هو السبيل
    http://kasikyawatan.blogspot.com/2006/07/blog-post_31.html

    إلا حريتي
    http://kasikyawatan.blogspot.com/2006/08/blog-post.html

    Reply

  126. Not really true
    Jan 31, 2007 @ 11:28:16

    Dear Geo and eshda3wa,

    Enough is enough, bas, sheba3t ghseel emkhookh. my mind is finally my own today, and if those two webblogs actually made me realize that your religion is lord of the rings fairy tale, then I am glad I found them. I am not going to read your books anymore, nor accept your invitation to forums that would spread the ideologies you presented here today, unfotunately, you can’t see all the hatred that it carried, I want to live and let live, I have been exposed enough to your islam, and only now, I got to see that it’s nonsensical. everything you presented today is like hallucinations of people who are high, and just talk about fiction stories like Harry Potter.

    I have never been more glad in my whole life that I have found those weblogs, and hopefully with time, I will be able to slowly get rid of the engraved brain wash stuff that I have been fed since my birth. Ideology change is hard, cos of all the guilt that comes with it, but I know I can do it. I know it’s only a matter of time.

    I am about to go back to be the silent reader that I always been. Take care, and I hope you will be free one day, and stop thinking like victims.

    Reply

  127. kasik ya watan
    Jan 31, 2007 @ 14:56:55

    الأخ جيو

    نسيت أضيف … حضرتك معترض على بريطانيا وأمريكا وأوروبا … نسيت إن هذه البلدان إهيه إللي قاعدة تضف المضطهدين من بلداننا العربية … الإسلامية منها وغير الإسلامية … نسيت إن سيدك الخميني ما طلع ولعلع إلا من فرنسا

    بعدين على طاري الشذوذ الجنسي والمخدرات شدعوة الكويت ولا السعودية ولا إيران مقصرين الحين

    … وهم كاسك

    Reply

  128. Geopolitical
    Jan 31, 2007 @ 15:03:28

    kasik ya watan,

    ana tafkery tafkeer erhab? lol ya 3azeezi enta sabab el muslmeen el met3a9been o akbar sabab wijood el qa3eda elyom, kel ely etgola enta yethkrona el qa3eda, wel shab el sgheer ye7is enah el qa3eda mujahdeen min sabab el 3elamniya, ana 3omri 7ayati ma sheft ath3af min el 3elmanyeen, getlek la ta5lu6 el a5laq bel mowthoo3, enta mo 3aref ma9eerik aw ma9eer el dawla, enta 7ata ma radait 3ala jawab wa7ed min as2elty, getlek enta rathy enah ra2ees el dawla shaath?

    Not really true,

    it is the other way round my dear friend, you need Islam Islam doesn’t need you. Whoever said muslims were good? but Islam is good. I am a victim? lol you really underestimate Islam, or Shiite Islam i should say, our influence is very powerful, look at sudan, eygpt, morroco and many other countries they are all converting. if you leave, do you think it matters? anything will change? I invited you to debate not to change your mind, You are weak in your heart and in your soul to let two weblogs change you perhaps it was the lack of having decent teachers or parents. I am high? no dear I think you want to do whatever you want without anyone judging you, every secular i have met has no respect for their self, not even my professor who has written 10 text books, and publishs journals, all equally ignorant. what is secularism? A form of ideology created in europe simply because christianity could not solve their conflicts, and NO shiasm and sunnism is nothing like them either, these are two different extrems.

    what hatred do i have to anyone, to you? or to AyyA or to secularists? how many times did i mention now, that seculars are weak, they are weaker than any other form of ideology i have seen. what is your purpose? where is your doctrine? how will you rule? Europe is mostly secular they all have extremists in their countries, look at the U.S they still recieve support from the church. tell me where are your ethics? show them to me, and please when you read the koran try understanding, i know that’s very hard for you but you can do it. to my Islam? actually last i checked islam belonged to anyone who wanted to join, this is the form of language that does create extremism and brings hatred. sadly secularists do not see that, I remember once a Shia brother in Kuwait told me we should unite with secularists and liberals, to be honest in Kuwait if people do think like you from the seculars/liberals i wouldn’t trust you with a 100 fils coin. you have no ethics, you have no one to judge you, humanity? Justice? is this what you will say, back again to the facts of religion whom mentioned those before you.

    I hope you are guided back to your senses, it is a shame you were not guided properly, such a weak person affected by a weblog does not desrve any time, but what can i say but if this is what you think suits you, then good luck enshallah and whatever makes you happy.

    Reply

  129. Geopolitical
    Jan 31, 2007 @ 15:50:55

    Kasik menu gal emga9ra? lol enta ma fahamt? getlek enta rathy t3eesh ta7t destoor el 3elmany 7ata lo el ra2ees ekon shath? wel shthooth mowjood? menu yab seerat dowal thanya? lol hatha akbar daleel enik ma et3aref etrid 3ala so2al ba9ee6.

    Europe etc, takes in the oppressed and then oppress our countries even more, I ask you, who made coloniosm? (al est3mar) who took off and put governments? who used the first nuclear warhead? who killed the vietnamese? who is commiting murders in Iraq in prisons? who is raping young girls? who killed the japanese in world war 2? who helped Milosovich? who currently has 15,000 stock warheads and 50,000 tons of depleted urnaium shells? muslims or americans? or europeans?

    a3teqid hathy ba3ad 7alat erhab ely enta ma tetkalam 3anha.

    o getlek mara thanya 3ala mowtho3 khomeini, ghaba2 el gharb howa ely wa9al khomeini elah thawrah. o eb kel fa5ar agol, enah al 7arb khod3a. Thanks Jimmy carter you were stupid. and now we rule the region. If Europe wants to harbour oppressed muslims, then that’s up to them we’ll take up the advantage perhaps you don’t see the political role of that but ok. lol if you see secularism i doubt you can see anything else.

    Reply

  130. eshda3wa
    Jan 31, 2007 @ 18:14:02

    Geo, yred shegool? ana agoolik, begool being gay is a pesonal choice. it has nothing to do with anything.
    lamman god y9eer mythical creature o mafeeh a7ad ta7sebla e7sab, nothing is too low, believe me. hey dont fite human rites hes gay he cant help it. lol
    e7na netkalam wengool, whma ytkalemoon wegoloon, oo in the end e7na 3ndina 3aqeeda, let them call us barbaric, stupid, uneducated cavemen, but we are here and we are here to stay. if hezballah with 3000 soldiers can shake israel and the usa, if alsistane talks millions of ppl will listen, and if iran chooses to be difient and disregard every threat from the so called powers of the world, i say my dear we are in safe hands.
    we are here and we are here to stay
    in the name of god most gracius most merciful. Be7ob mo7amd o ahal baytah,bethhoor imam elzaman (3ajal allah farajah) we dont have a point to prove, our point has been made. Let them make fun, let them make up beliefs and feel fulfilled, let us be brainwashed, that is if we have a brain to begin with.
    alqafela taseer 🙂
    salam

    Reply

  131. Geopolitical
    Jan 31, 2007 @ 19:53:15

    http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=234920936&st=0&gopid=1323395&#entry1323395

    please look at the pictures, our influence has reached Nigeria, pictures of ayatollahs and Nasrallah are even raised there. Be hold the power of true Islam, we will eradicate and abbrogate all secularist beliefs.

    Reply

  132. kasik ya watan
    Feb 01, 2007 @ 01:07:01

    جيو و شدعوه

    هنيئاً لكم بلدكم العظيم إيران ومذهبك الرحيم … ردودكم إنما تدل على مدى تغيب عقلكم من قبل سادتكم ومراجعك, وأشكر إعترافكم وإفتخاركم بذلك … وأتمنى سرعة ظهور مهديكم الذي تنتظرونه منذ ألف وثلاثمائة سنة لكي ينتقم و لكي يقول لكم من كان على حق ومن كان على باطل … إلى أن يأتي هذا اليوم فإنني أعتقد أن الوصول لعقولكم ومخاطبتها سيتطلب معجزة غير مسبوقة

    وإلى أن تتمكنوا من أخذ قراراتكم وتكوين أفكاركم بأنفسكم … وليس عن طريق الوكيل المرجع الذي يملك مفتاح القفل الإيراني الصدأ الذي تقفلون به عقولكم … سأكون عندها سعيد بمحاورتكم … وإني واثق من أنكم لن تسألوا نفس الأسئلة حينها لتبيانكم مدى سخافتها وبعدها عن الموضوع … ولن تردوا نفس الردود الصبيانية التي تبين مدى ضعفكم وجهلكم… علماً بأني جاوبت على أغلبها بشكل مباشر وغير مباشر ولكن لا ألومكم لعدم رؤيتكم الإجابة الأكبر حيث أنكم تعودتم على التلقين وليس التفكير والنقد والتحليل

    أتمنى … وأنا والله صادق في أمنيتي ودعوتي هذه … أتمنى و أدعو أن يهديكم الله … وسأنئي بنفسي عن الرد عليكم بعد الآن لإكتشافي بأني لو إستمريت في الحوار معكم فسأنزل لمستوى متدني من الحوار وهو ما لا أرضاه لنفسي

    … وكاسكم

    Reply

  133. هيباتيا
    Feb 10, 2007 @ 04:28:31

    سؤال خارج الموضوع …عزيزتي آيا

    انتي جنسيتك ايه … و ديانتك ايه؟؟

    Reply

  134. AyyA
    Feb 10, 2007 @ 07:03:47

    Not out of subject at all dear, but I will answer anyway:
    My nationality is global and my religion is humanity.

    Reply

  135. هيباتيا
    Feb 10, 2007 @ 18:49:07

    كلنا إنسان يا عزيزيتي

    و لكننا أمم !!!

    خلقنا الله أمم مختلفة و سنبقى هكذا حتى يوم الدين

    (مختلفين)

    فمن أي أمة أنتي؟؟؟

    Reply

  136. Navcity
    Jan 05, 2008 @ 11:14:52

    I live in West London, and have done for most of my life. Melanie Phillips has an agenda as a sexually frustrated anti-muslim fanatic. Granted, we do have problems in England but the problems and crazed fanatics who carried out the bombings come from the north of England and not from London. These were young deluded insecure men with little hope in their lives.

    I appreciate that you live in Kuwait , so you would know that the shariah is not a monolith but an attempt at deriving and understanding divine law. Hanafi sharia is different from Maliki sharia for example. What is fard and what is not is different accordingly.

    In your “about” section you ask people not to be offensive but your words sound worse than the Neo-Nazis use in Britain. To tar all immigrants and children of immigrants with the same brush and call them all barbarians is very insulting to someone like me who is the grandson of an immigrant. My grandfather worked hard in England to make his family very comfortable thank you (alhamdulilah), and contributed to society.

    You, as an Kuwaiti Woman who aspires to be a poetess should really look for the poetic subtletees and subtext in people’s writing, especially the writing of M. Philips.

    These very same authors would take one look at you as a kuwaiti women walking in London and hold the very same contempt for you, whether you’re wearing an abaya or tight armani jeans …I know these people, they have been my lecturers and colleagues.

    Peace.

    Nav

    Reply

  137. AyyA
    Jan 05, 2008 @ 19:02:03

    “Melanie Phillips has an agenda as a sexually frustrated anti-Muslim fanatic”
    On what bases did you pass your judgment?

    “but your words sound worse than the Neo-Nazis use in Britain”

    Another one of your judgmental views!

    “. To tar all immigrants and children of immigrants with the same brush and call them all barbarians is very insulting to someone like me who is the grandson of an immigrant. My grandfather worked hard in England to make his family very comfortable thank you (alhamdulilah), and contributed to society”

    In no way I generalized the act of fundamentalism to Muslim immigrants of London. I believe I have mentioned that some of their decent families did not even know what their kids were exposed to, as you said “These were young deluded insecure men with little hope in their lives”, but who were their dynamo? It is true that the radical fundamentalists are not the majority, but nevertheless, they posses power through their connections with external cells, and control over Mosques and Madrassas. And as for the Islamophobia, no one created it but the Muslim radicals and the terrorists themselves.
    And yes, peace is what we all need.

    Reply

  138. navcity
    Jan 05, 2008 @ 19:43:24

    Sweetheart, read below. I met her at parties and at book launches so I’m fairly familiar with her.

    If that aint anti-muslim what is?….

    “Since most of the mass immigration now convulsing Europe is composed of Muslims, it is therefore hardly surprising that anti-immigrant feeling is largely anti-Muslim feeling. The sheer weight of numbers, plus the refusal to assimilate to western values, makes this an unprecedented crisis for western liberalism. The crisis is forcing it to confront the fundamental questions of what constitutes a country, national identity and the very nature of a liberal society.”-Spectator Magazine, May 2002

    The words you use are similar to the ones used by BNP councillors in Burnley and Barking…they say that you cant be a loyal british citizen and a muslim and you’re alluding to the very same thing when you say that
    1. “Even the moderate Moslems who tell you that this killing is not permitted in Islam, down at their hearts they fully know that they are liars”
    2. Islam is the religion of radicalism

    I’m not much of a practising muslim but I do take offence to these remarks and I’ll answer them in order:

    1. Do you seriously believe people became muslims under the sword? The hindus of kashmir and punjab became muslims through muslim sufi saints teaching them. The muslims of Malaysia and Indonesia became muslims through trade. These are just two examples. Read a british General’s (Sir John Glubb)book “A short History of the Arab People”. He gives a detailed account of how it is a lie to say muslims converted people under the sword.

    Read the history of Muslim Spain and how under the Reconquista Muslims were charged with being too accepting of other religions. Read how when Khalid bin Walid conquered Syria in 636AD the christian were sad when the muslims had to leave them for tactical reasons because they got treated better the muslims than they did under the Byzantines.

    You call the moderates ‘liars’. I say they know their history and their Islam.

    2. The Quran tells the christians and jews not to go to the extremes of their religion, so how can muslims become extremists? There is no justification. Secondly, I am sure you know very well that the Prophet said that Islam was the middle path (“wasat”).

    My dear sweetheart let me ask you what would you do to help the situation if you were a british muslim?…its easy to kick someone when they’re down, but more difficlt to help them up and show them the right way.

    Radicals may or may not have created Islamophobia but when innocent muslim women are spat on in the street, called “muslim bitches” and “whores”, have their scarves pulled off their heads and have stones thrown at them from passing cars (all documented) then even the heardest of hearts can see that is wrong.

    Would you say that the Jews brought the brutalities of the holocaust upon themselves then or that the black people of Africa brought the horrors of slvery upon themselvs too?

    Reply

  139. AyyA
    Jan 05, 2008 @ 23:47:27

    “The sheer weight of numbers, plus the refusal to assimilate to western values, makes this an unprecedented crisis for western liberalism. “
    I agree one hundred percent with this. It took Europe years of bloody wars to reach their Western values and liberalism. They have the right to defend it against any foreign dilution. Muslims who live under a secular society should not impose their religious laws and place them above the State laws. Like any other religion, Muslims are free to practice their religion as much as they want, but to impose the laws of Shareea (anyone of them) on English Muslims, as if a country inside a country, this is not acceptable. If I were a true British I will refuse it regardless of my religion.

    “I’m not much of a practising muslim but I do take offence to these remarks and I’ll answer them in order:”

    Ah, now this is a different matter. What you are offended of is not my concern for immigrant Muslims of London, nor for our reputation as Muslims. What you are offended of is directed through your religious prejudice to Islam. through your belief that Islam can never be criticized, because it is perfect. Sorry to be blunt, but this is what I sensed from your comments.
    All the remarks I made about Islam were simply stating a belief. My belief as an ex-Muslim. If you don’t agree, fine. And if you care to know why I have reached this belief, my blog is full of articles, most of them are in retrospect with the answers you provided, you can read on your own time and then may be we can have a further discussion if you like.
    What I don’t understand though is why someone should get offended when others criticize their own (criticizer) religion! Why should I be treated as a traitor? Isn’t possible that my perception is different than yours. Or that I do understand Islam better than you? Why are Muslims so arrogant for each to believe that he’s the only one who knows “The true Islam”? And others are just deluded with Western ideologies, and therefore know nothing about Islam. Do you know how much I know about Islam? Then why do you assume you do?

    “My dear sweetheart let me ask you what would you do to help the situation if you were a british muslim?…its easy to kick someone when they’re down, but more difficlt to help them up and show them the right way.”
    That was my favorite part…
    If I were a British Muslim, I would act on the same order that “British Muslim” identifies me; first British, then Muslim and not vise-versa. I would have to improve my image with hard work and loyalty to my country and not to my religion. In a secular country religion is not institutionalized, it’s a relationship between the individual and whomever he cares to worship. I would raise rallies against radicalism in any form. I would fight against applying Shareea law or any other law above the State law. I will conduct intellectual gatherings to warn Muslims of the dangers of political Islam and its promoters. This is what I can think of now, but there are a lot that can be done. Many Muslims in Islamic states dream of secular laws, laws that protect their private rights without the interference of religious clerics. It would be a pity to make the mistake in empowering those in a relatively advanced secular societies. No one will pay the price but the immigrants themselves, as it’s happening now.

    Reply

  140. navcity
    Jan 06, 2008 @ 00:42:00

    Phillips is magnifying a problem which, I agree to some extent does exist but it is an immigration problem not a problem with muslims. For example Eastern European immigrants are convicted of 9 times more crimes than anyone else. Thats a staggering statistic, but why hast she mentioned it.

    For a start I do not want sharia in Britian, and hand on my heart I dont know any other muslim who does. But as I said sharia is not a monolith is NOT divine law but an attempt at deriving divine through the medium of man, which can be right or wrong.

    And sweetheart, I have no problem with constructive criticism of Islam, in fact I have invite it.

    But as I said she is exagerating it by putting a magnifying glass to it.

    I appreciate your comments but you havent answered any of my comments other than the one about being a british muslim (I’m glad you felt entertained with that one)…many of us do excactly that and in our own environments people do ask questions and understand more, and most, if not all of my muslim friends are high skilled professionals – doctors, lecturers, engineers, teachers, lawyers and a politician, to name but a few who contribute and integrate immesely into society and are proud of being british.

    You cant sit their in Kuwait and make sweeping generalisations about people in London. I invite you to come to London and I’ll get one of my professionally qualified female (non-extremist of course :-)) friends to show you around then maybe you’ll get a better understanding of how we contribute and how well integrated we are.

    And you may very well know more about Islam than I do. So be it.

    P.s. There is no such thing as an Islamic country. The muslim countries you speak of are mostly unenlightened dictatorial regimes….the most ‘englightened’ of which throw money at their subjects to keep them happy. e.g. UAE.

    I’ve been to many of the Khaleeji and other muslim countries and sincerely hope you do get more secular laws.

    Reply

  141. navcity
    Jan 06, 2008 @ 02:12:00

    “It took Europe years of bloody wars to reach their Western values and liberalism”

    The liberalism and western values you speak of are directly the result of ideas of philosophers such as Ibn Rush (Averroes) and Ibn Sina (Avicenna) to name but two, who directly influenced great western thinkers like Bacon, John Locke, Kant and even B. Russell (who you so eloquently quote)

    Best wishes for your future,

    N

    Reply

  142. saeed
    Jan 06, 2008 @ 06:04:10

    To: Navcity,

    You make very good points, and I for one agree with you on them, but your points are falling on deaf ears.

    I’ve had my own similar interactions with Ayya — see the comments on https://3asal.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/no-god-but-goda-reviewvii/

    When people have already made their minds up about something, — as an example, Ayya wrote :

    “Muhammad could not tolerate any other religion, he wanted Islam to be the greatest empire on earth, like Alexander the Great’s or other great empires of his time, only his dream was much bigger; he wanted an Islamic dominion of the world .”

    and closed off any room for change, it’s almost futile to participate. Anyway, great comments and certainly I’m happy someone else who shares a common view of the situation.

    BTW, the line “It took Europe years of bloody wars to reach their Western values and liberalism. They have the right to defend it against any foreign dilution.” completely cracks me up, particularly the words “foreign dilution”.

    Which Europe is being discussed here? The Europe that contains Great Britain and Spain for example, whose governments, despite the overwhelming protests from their people launched an illegal war in Iraq? Or the Europe that sat by and watched the “Christian” Serbs slaughter, rape and destroy the “Muslim” Bosnians, and since the end of that War, have done nothing to catch the war criminals who perpetrated those crimes. Or the Europe that will extradite and severely prosecute anyone who makes slanderous remarks against someone Jewish, but twiddles it’s thumbs when slander is committed against Muslims. Or the Europe that allowed the US to use it’s airbases to kidnap people and take them to undisclosed locations to torture them.

    There are many good things about the laws and society in Europe, but this myth of idealism related to “Western values and liberalism” need a dose of reality thrown in.

    Free speech is a core value of the nations in Europe. This is a good thing. So when people use that right to say things that one may not agree with, the solution is not to ostracize or demonize them, but to engage them. One cannot talk about freedom of speech, but limit it to only things that “liberals” agree with. If that is the case, then there is no “liberalism”, and the notion of “western values and liberalism” is nothing but fluff and hypocrisy.

    Reply

  143. AyyA
    Jan 06, 2008 @ 22:00:40

    Nav
    I believe that Phillips has the right to magnify it. any problem in the society, no matter how small, if it exists it should be magnified. Take “Human Right’s Watch” post video I posted for example, do you think that this is a common practice in the Gulf area? No. But nevertheless, it should be exposed. People have to develop a sense of responsibility towards these acts, and fight it to the best of their abilities. There is nothing wrong with magnifying a problem. I’d rather do that than wait and watch the problem overtake me. And yes, it is an immigration problem, more Muslims means more participation in the political system of that country, there has to be a balance, every country has the right to have it’s own balance. And you can’t compare the individual crimes of the Europeans to organized terrorist’s groups’, especially when masterminding those acts came from England.
    Man, I believe you when you say that you’d never want to apply Shareea law in England, and I’m sure most of the English Muslims agree with you on that. In fact, most of the immigrants fled their own countries’ dictatorship for better chance in life, especially the highly educated ones. As a matter of fact I have a house in England, and London is not strange to me. I have many highly educated friends among the English people; Muslims and others. But I also know that there are others who don’t agree with you, whether they were politically pumped with Western hatred, like our friend Saeed here, or religiously molded in the belief that Islam should take over the whole world until the last one on earth says” La illah illa Allah, and me (Muhammad) the prophet of Allah” and this is a sa7eeh tradition. Can you argue with a guy who believes that?
    It does not matter if they are minorities. Or are “delusional”. But this minority is like a virus that should be treated properly. And it’s your duty specifically as British Muslims to take care of that. This is how I see the situation. And that’s why I participate in “magnifying” the problem with my post, may be then you could see the situation from my side.
    Islamists have many conning ways to approach the “delusional”, and they are closer to you than you think, and they know their own ways to politics very well.

    As for your other comment, I thought I advised you to read other posts regarding religion on my blog because most of what you inquired needed details so that you wouldn’t misunderstand my point of view. For each answer I would probably need to write a post. But they are available on my other related posts. That’s why I advised you to refer to those. And I meant it. I don’t mind debating with you. But what you’re pointing at as a mere question needs its own right of detailed answer.
    But nevertheless, I will try to give it to you in as brief answers as much as I can.
    1. Yes I seriously believe that people became Muslims under the sword. History is a chronology that can’t be divided. What do you call the spread of Islam, first through the Arabian Peninsula, then to Persia, Middle East or the Fertile Crescent, Africa, and Europe? Do you call it a spread through Sufi Islam?
    Be logical, it’s not me who invented “Spread by Sword” term. I only learned it through Islam’s bloody history. I checked the book “A short History of the Arab People” on Amazon, and I read this from a commentator. ” …It is lively, personal, incredibly fun and easy to read, but has certain inaccuracies, which academics will no doubt find annoying.” Another said “…It makes excellent reading for anyone with an interest, either mild or passionate.”
    And from those comments I could pretty much know what kind of a book this is. Karen Armstrong wrote the most extraordinary books of Islamic history in boring details. Yet, she left some events out because she is an apologist. Apologists have their own agendas I’m sure you know that. If you really care to read history books, read the source. Find an English translation if you can’t read Arabic, and you’ll be surprised at what you may encounter.

    “Read the history of Muslim Spain and how under the Reconquista Muslims were charged with being too accepting of other religions.”
    The best book I read about Muslim civilization in Andalusia was “The Ornament of the World: How Muslims, Jews and Christians Created a Culture of Tolerance in Medieval Spain” by Maria Rosa Menocal. An excellent book, although many critics thought that she exaggerated. But I found the book very honest. She was only referring to a mere period of time throughout a 900 years of history. A period of which most Muslim writers or Arabs (me included), pride themselves about. But that does not portray, by any means the events of the whole period of the occupation. Check
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus
    And see how bloody was Muslim occupation of Spain. Besides you do not consider any of the countries in the world to be Islamic, yet you consider Andalusia as an Islamic state? Andalusia did not prosper until Abdelrahman Aldakhil announced himself the Amir. And his heirs succeeded him. That sounds more like a monarchy than Islamic doesn’t it? By the way, did you know that Ibn Rush (Averroes) and Ibn Sina (Avicenna) were both atheists? Check Islamic sources.

    “Read how when Khalid bin Walid conquered Syria in 636AD the christian were sad when the Muslims had to leave them for tactical reasons because they got treated better the muslims than they did under the Byzantines.”

    Read Khalid Bin Waleed’s biography from the translations of the old Arabic sources, like Ibn Hisham. Or any other closer to his epoch.

    2- Quran also called Jews and Christians monkeys and apes. Quran says many things, it’s the people who can’t agree unanimously of which part they should all choose and abide by. And which part to discard. Quran is confusing with it’s contradictories.

    See I told you, this will be lengthy.

    Reply

  144. AyyA
    Jan 06, 2008 @ 22:10:57

    Saeed
    When one points a finger out, there are three of his other fingers pointing back at him.

    Reply

  145. navcity
    Jan 07, 2008 @ 14:54:29

    Firstly, Ibn Rushd and Ibn Sina were accused of being atheists but they never said they were. In fact how do they end their books? By saying “Allah knows best”. Read about Ibn Sina’s thought experiment called “The floating man”…how can he have been an atheist when, with that experiment he was demonstrating the existence of God.

    Glad you’re convinced by the couch potatoe “experts” reviewing books on Amazon lolz!! …I really did expect a better critique than that but I was obviously misguided.

    Why dont you go “magnify” the problem of Israeli’s violating human rights and the violation of human rights in Iraq, India, Africa, Afghanistan and Kashmir? Its closer geographically to you than Europe, and you’re not European so leave it to us (yes, I have an english grandmother) and sort out the problems of maids getting raped in Kuwait :

    http://www.infocusnews.net/content/view/15965/349/

    Reply

  146. navcity
    Jan 07, 2008 @ 15:01:04

    …by that I dont mean its kuwaitis always committing the rapes by the way. It is nationality upon nationality as well.

    Reply

  147. AyyA
    Jan 08, 2008 @ 17:33:11

    Nav
    “Firstly, Ibn Rushd and Ibn Sina were accused of being atheists but they never said they were.”
    And I never said they were, I said Islamic sources did. An orthodox Koranic interpretator like Alqazali did. But I won’t go through this, if you care to know more here is a link
    http://uk.geocities.com/limerickphilos/AVERROES.htm

    In any case, this was not my point. Religion like any other meme had gone through social evolution. Civilizations rose on the remnants of other civilizations until the age of information, when the world became smaller and cultures intermixed. Today, we need secularism. And secularism as you may know is foreign to the ears of the citizens of the “so called” Islamic countries. Some even believe that it’s evil, no different than atheism. Ibn Rushd’s ideologies were the seeds for secularism of Europe. Yet, it didn’t seem to have an affect on Muslim ideologies, and this is the reason why we are so backward in all aspects of our lives compared to Europe.

    ““Glad you’re convinced by the couch potatoe “experts” reviewing books on Amazon lolz!! …I really did expect a better critique than that but I was obviously misguided.”

    Believe me when you have a pile of books waiting for you to know who is next in-line to be consumed, the last thing you want to hear is a recommendation of a new book. And unless that book sounds really tempting, or could teach you something new, you wouldn’t bother ordering it. But thanks for the recommendation anyway, and sometimes “couch potato” reviews could be very helpful, trust me 🙂

    ““Why dont you go “magnify” the problem of Israeli’s violating human rights and the violation of human rights in Iraq, India, Africa, Afghanistan and Kashmir? Its closer geographically to you than Europe, and you’re not European so leave it to us (yes, I have an english grandmother)”
    I have lost hope in all the countries you mentioned. All of them are not secular, but England is, and Europe is. There are other Muslims who are oppressed in their own corrupt countries and they’re seriously looking for a secular refuge in Europe, not Afghanistan, like your ancestors did.

    “ And sort out the problems of maids getting raped in Kuwait”
    You bet your starts I will, to the best of my abilities.

    Reply

  148. navcity
    Jan 12, 2008 @ 00:04:10

    Imam Al-Ghazali never called them atheists. He entered into discourses about Ibn Rushd’s approach and what he saw was the ‘error’ of philosophers….the kind of intellectual discoirse that I wish muslim of today entered into rather than going to war.

    “Ibn Rushd’s ideologies were the seeds for secularism of Europe. Yet, it didn’t seem to have an affect on Muslim ideologies, and this is the reason why we are so backward in all aspects of our lives compared to Europe. ”

    Whilst places like kuwait may seem to be ‘Islamic’ we all know how little that affects how people live their lives. I know for a fact that whatever I want to get / do here in London I can get and do in Kuwait City. I know how many khaliji people I know who are having extra-marital affairs. In reality what goes on behind closed doors doesnt make the blindest bit of difference whether you guys get secularism or not.

    And my ancestors didnt seek ‘refuge’ in Britain. My grandfather came because Britain needed doctors to help britain after World War I.

    Reply

  149. navcity
    Jan 12, 2008 @ 03:48:20

    …and by the way Iraq was the only secular nation in the M.E. so maybe you should have welcome her take over of Q8 🙂

    so if you believe in secularism does that mean that you think the kuwaiti royal family is illegitimate? Surely one of the premises of true secularism is equality for all.

    Reply

  150. gomefzihxis
    Dec 03, 2008 @ 14:19:49

    Reply

  151. college
    Dec 19, 2008 @ 08:38:44

    Especially the thin yellow petalsoff one look so repulsive college party girls and a.

    Reply

  152. bernice gerard
    Oct 09, 2009 @ 01:55:58

    i am horrified by the thought of sharia law being implemented in a democracy.
    however, i wouldn’t mind knocking off bush. if i was a kid being bombed i would not be too happy about it either.
    it’s not rocket science—america supports terrorism too. have you ever heard of the school of americas?
    what about israel? why not put that in the documentary too. america wants to harm our healthcare in canada. i’m no fan of the usa or islam for that matter.

    Reply

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